Invision Community v5

[Cedric]

I’ve got some great questions so far. And you still have time to send them through! If you want to know anything or ask anything about Invision Community — send me a PM!

 

[Empire]

I'll be switching to the new license agreement also. My annual costs will go down and I will gain some applications that I didn't already have. I also starting a new initiative and am purchasing an additional Invision self-hosted license. I'm very familiar with their software, and have always had good experiences with their support. I've simply learned not to upgrade or do anything strange with my install after business hours, lol.

I spent the last week considering my options. SMF, PhpBB, MyBB, Discourse, VBulletin, Woltlabs, Xenforo, etc. Discourse might have had potential. VBulletin and Woltlabs initial investment would have been akin to Invision. Xenforo would cost less, especially with a second hand license, but I didn't like the sandbox demo I tried out. IPS just feels like home to me, and so I stay.

I am already on the new license agreement as you read above, but you still have the option to stick with V4 and not move to V5 and yes it's cheaper however you end up paying the full year in one go rather than six months. I thought about moving however I rather stick with them

 

[Tracy]

I thought about moving however I rather stick with them

My biggest concern with IPS... I prefer self-hosted... and other than "we will support through v5) you don't get much security from them.... and based upon their historical trends on their statements and standing behind it... I have some definite concerns.
Granted... IPS is a great script... but one has to realize that you WILL be forced into their SaaS offering in the future.

 

[Cedric]

My biggest concern with IPS... I prefer self-hosted... and other than "we will support through v5) you don't get much security from them.... and based upon their historical trends on their statements and standing behind it... I have some definite concerns.
Granted... IPS is a great script... but one has to realize that you WILL be forced into their SaaS offering in the future.

No one has said you will be forced to do so. Do they encourage? Yes, no doubt. It’s more profitable for them. But the self hosted option will always be available. Although with less options than their Cloud Service. Still, those options are most likely not needed for self hosting administrators.

 

[Tracy]

No one has said you will be forced to do so.

Yes, in "roundabout" comments, they have.. specifically from Charles. He readily admits that currently they only have about 25% of their license holders on self-hosted scripts... and that 25% is a problematic segment for support... and they are ACTIVELY pushing their stand-alone script license holders towards their SaaS offering. He also admitted that the standalone script is pretty much on life support. Once it reaches a point that their SaaS offerings are bringing in adequate funds, it will be killed. And their historical trends support that action.
He also stated that, in a nutshell, standalone is a dying branch.

I'm sorry.. but anyone that has been around awhile and watched IPS knows how the wind is blowing... now, granted, certain IPS "pushers" would like that wind to blow smoke up your posterior and you to think that self-hosted is guaranteed... but I simply refer you back to their "lifetime license" promise (and no, I didn't have one and was not impacted by their actions... but the BS remains BS).

 

[Cedric]

Yes, in "roundabout" comments, they have.. specifically from Charles. He readily admits that currently they only have about 25% of their license holders on self-hosted scripts... and that 25% is a problematic segment for support... and they are ACTIVELY pushing their stand-alone script license holders towards their SaaS offering.
He also stated that, in a nutshell, standalone is a dying branch.

That may be so, but they still offer support, and no where have they stated they will terminate support for self hosted forums. It has declined, surely — but the forum world is evolving, most opt for a cloud / SaaS option. Mainly because people aren’t bothered to do their own server stuff like when they started out.

You really need to cut them some slack, they are only trying to survive. Even XenForo is struggling to get funds and staying healthy as a company.

I know SMF have been struggling to find new community owners, despite them being free. As well as many other free forum softwares. Look at MyBB and how dead they have become.

 

[Tracy]

You really need to cut them some slack, they are only trying to survive.

I have NO issues with them pushing their SaaS offering. What I DO have an issue with is their "pussy-footing" around the simple fact that they won't clearly admit that their self-hosted offering is going to suffer a mass-extinction event.

 

[Cedric]

I have NO issues with them pushing their SaaS offering. What I DO have an issue with is their "pussy-footing" around the simple fact that they won't clearly admit that their self-hosted offering is going to suffer a mass-extinction event.

Like I said, they are encouraging people to go SaaS, which isn’t something bad given that they keep self hosted as an option as well as the support.

I’ve got an interview coming up, that will explain a lot and you’ll see that your opinion about them is a bit misplaced.

 

[Empire]

I mean if there SaaS is going to be cheaper in the future then that's something that we can consider. Self-hosting for me is cheaper than the way I do things now. Then again if the sites become bigger then it's a different story but I love to control my own server or have control on the backend.

 

[Cedric]

I mean if there SaaS is going to be cheaper in the future then that's something that we can consider. Self-hosting for me is cheaper than the way I do things now. Then again if the sites become bigger then it's a different story but I love to control my own server or have control on the backend.

That’s because you and I have been messing around with server stuff for the past 15 or so years. Most new Community Owners don’t want to get into the technical side and therefore the SaaS option is brilliant.

Both however need to stay alive and supported with one being more popular than the other.

 

[Tracy]

I’ve got an interview coming up, that will explain a lot and you’ll see that your opinion about them is a bit misplaced.

As a license holder since 2015, and watching their ACTUAL actions and their historical posts/statements... I doubt it.

Self-hosting for me is cheaper than the way I do things now. Then again if the sites become bigger then it's a different story but I love to control my own server or have control on the backend.

Problem is.. that is a SITE SPECIFIC attitude.. .now, let's carry that out to if you have 3-5 more sites running. HOW exactly does SaaS benefit you when you STILL have to have other hosting for those other sites?
On my 8GB RAM VPS I can easily host 5-8 sites... all for the grand total (for hosting) of about $17 USD a month. Now, detail to us how having to pay for IPS SaaS pricing at a minimum of $50 a month PLUS that $17 for my other sites "benefits" me?

 

[Cedric]

As a license holder since 2015, and watching their ACTUAL actions and their historical posts/statements... I doubt it.


Problem is.. that is a SITE SPECIFIC attitude.. .now, let's carry that out to if you have 3-5 more sites running. HOW exactly does SaaS benefit you when you STILL have to have other hosting for those other sites?
On my 8GB RAM VPS I can easily host 5-8 sites... all for the grand total (for hosting) of about $17 USD a month. Now, detail to us how having to pay for IPS SaaS pricing at a minimum of $50 a month PLUS that $17 for my other sites "benefits" me?

Okay, you don’t have a need for SaaS. But don’t expect others to be in the same boat as you.

I don’t care for SaaS myself, but I’m still open for the option for others and understand as a business that SaaS is the way to go in the long run.

 

[Tracy]

Okay, you don’t have a need for SaaS. But don’t expect others to be in the same boat as you.

Never said others were.. but it STILL remains (as far as SaaS goes) a SITE SPECIFIC need. If you run multiple sites.. .you WILL have to have both SaaS from IPS eventually and then a separate hosting instance for your other sites. That's simple reality.

One simply has to realize.. if one desires to run a SINGULAR site.. then SaaS might be OK (but not necessarily cost efficient)... but once you add another site into the mix.. it craps on itself.

 

[Cedric]

Never said others were.. but it STILL remains (as far as SaaS goes) a SITE SPECIFIC need. If you run multiple sites.. .you WILL have to have both SaaS from IPS eventually and then a separate hosting instance for your other sites. That's simple reality.

One simply has to realize.. if one desires to run a SINGULAR site.. then SaaS might be OK (but not necessarily cost efficient)... but once you add another site into the mix.. it craps on itself.

That’s true. If you need an additional website, you’ll need to invest in additional hosting. But they sell forums, you can’t expect them to offer a solution for forums AND additional websites.

 

[Dismal_Bliss]

IPS is a great script... but one has to realize that you WILL be forced into their SaaS offering in the future.

What I DO have an issue with is their "pussy-footing" around the simple fact that they won't clearly admit that their self-hosted offering is going to suffer a mass-extinction event.

While I can't say this won't ever happen, it really does seem unlikely. Especially now that they will be getting a minimum of $20/mo for self-hosted subscriptions from new clients moving forward and a whole host of former clients who are jumping to the new terms. Even with offering no premium email or ticket support to boot (support forum only). Residual income is residual income. While 25% of their active licenses are from self-hosted, that still represent a lot.

I mean if there SaaS is going to be cheaper in the future then that's something that we can consider. Self-hosting for me is cheaper than the way I do things now.

This is an interesting comment that I think lends itself to Invision providing Self-Hosted into the future. Let's compare what Invision has done with a company that is truly evil to it's core: Intuit.

Intuit's most common package, Quickbooks Pro for Desktop, used to be $249 and they would support it for 3 years. Then they came out with their (still inferior) Saas cloud service called Quickbooks Online. The Online offering, like anybody's cloud offerings, are stupid expensive compared to what you have been used to, so you don't switch. Well, Intuit, in their struggle to get people to switch, started changing the terms for their "Self-Hosted" Desktop Pro software. They eliminated the 3 years of support and changed the license terms to an annual subscription. So now it was $249 per year instead of every 3 years. The following year they raised the price to $399 with the same annual subscription model. At this point, you were still better off using Desktop vs. the Cloud. The next year they eliminated Desktop Pro and only offered Desktop Premium for $799/yr. Now moving online looked palatable, but no matter which Cloud plan you choose, you are losing features. If you don't switch to the cloud or pay $799, you lose access to your company's financial records. Yes, they lock you out of your own books.

Now this was a downright sinister scheme by Intuit to get people to stop paying on average $83 per year to paying $85 per month. But Invision has done the opposite. They have dropped their self-hosting license fees overall, and license holders don't have to switch. You can let your license expire and your software will continue to run.

 

[Tracy]

While I can't say this won't ever happen, it really does seem unlikely.

Then you ignore IPS staff comments.... they have CLEARLY stated that the stand-alone script is on a decline, that the stand-alone script is support intensive and costs them in support... those two factors combined in ANY business environment is an open door to elimination of the offering when the cost/benefit ratio is shot.

This is an interesting comment that I think lends itself to Invision providing Self-Hosted into the future. Let's compare what Invision has done with a company that is truly evil to it's core: Intuit.

And ONCE more.. the fixation on a SINGULAR offering. Would you care to guess at how many admins host MORE than one site?
Explain to me how $600 (at a minimum) is cheaper than $200 a year... and that's JUST for one site. Never mind that my current VPS hosts 5 sites.
The very simple fact is.. those thinking about adopting IPS need to be WELL aware that their eventual target is to push ALL sites over to their SaaS offerings.. .if you have other sites you run, you either need to simply budget for the additional IPS "tax", or find another script that continues to allow self-hosting so you can have everything in one bucket.

And NO, I am NOT against SaaS.. but I simply push the point that one needs to examine all aspects of it.

 

[Cedric]

Then you ignore IPS staff comments.... they have CLEARLY stated that the stand-alone script is on a decline, that the stand-alone script is support intensive and costs them in support... those two factors combined in ANY business environment is an open door to elimination of the offering when the cost/benefit ratio is shot.

Where do they state that they will stop it though? Clearly the loss they make is justified by the SaaS.

Do you recon all businesses have all aspects or services being profitable? Some divisions or services are a loss, but yet it’s impossible to neglect it as it would damage them even more.

 

[joelr]

Yes, in "roundabout" comments, they have.. specifically from Charles. He readily admits that currently they only have about 25% of their license holders on self-hosted scripts... and that 25% is a problematic segment for support... and they are ACTIVELY pushing their stand-alone script license holders towards their SaaS offering. He also admitted that the standalone script is pretty much on life support. Once it reaches a point that their SaaS offerings are bringing in adequate funds, it will be killed. And their historical trends support that action.
He also stated that, in a nutshell, standalone is a dying branch.

I'm sorry.. but anyone that has been around awhile and watched IPS knows how the wind is blowing... now, granted, certain IPS "pushers" would like that wind to blow smoke up your posterior and you to think that self-hosted is guaranteed... but I simply refer you back to their "lifetime license" promise (and no, I didn't have one and was not impacted by their actions... but the BS remains BS).

You're so amazing at giving roadmaps better than the actual company.

You should do one for XF. I hear they could use one.

 

[SoluDome]

But the self hosted option will always be available. Although with less options than their Cloud Service. Still, those options are most likely not needed for self hosting administrators.

It will not be available always! After v5 it's end of self hosted version. They will be going to make announcements soon 😄 You should ask this in the interview 😸

I already dropped hint in my recent posts. Just check how many of the actual 3rd party developers are involved in development blogs (like, reactions, comments). I can speak from my experiences.

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IPS always had so many bugs, from the day I have started using it. I will never prefer them over XF untill they start providing better self hosted version, which they have tested at their end properly before releasing newer versions. XF has stability that is something IPS doesn't offer in term of code and issues. Many don't use it like we do, with automation and other things. XF has always been stable with code and features they enlist, but with IPS most of the time you have half baked things provided to you.

 

[SoluDome]

You're so amazing at giving roadmaps better than the actual company.

You should do one for XF. I hear they could use one.

XF is not in question because they have already made it clear, as their staff said it already their product is xenForo not cloud. And they will be developing XF software and will provide self hosted version.

Invision Community is in question because of their tactics they are playing. My account got limited because I was asking about their future plans, posts not approved. If they are running a business so do we, as we are also going to be affected by their decisions. They say on forum you can ask us directly by sending us an email but in mail they always give response like you should not worry about this right now and ignore the question.

If we are comparing both, you can check XF is getting criticised by many on their forum but they are not limiting your account when you are asking questions. IPS management team well simply put you under moderation and will not approve your posts for asking questions related to their future plans.