Invision Community v5

[Cedric]

What I understand is IPS is (as it always does) working to maximize their income at the cost of their license holders. Their "commercial" interests will ultimately not give a crap.. a thousand here and a thousand there are simply rounding errors... but I'm pretty sure there is a noticeable segment that their income is a based upon CURRENTLY that this is going to ultimate "fvck" over. And honestly.. I hope they take it right up the 'chute' as a result. It couldn't happen to a more deserving set of upper level button pushers.
I notice you "glossed" over the simple fact that now Groups has been moved strictly over to the SaaS offering.. when there is NO technical reason to do so as for years it has ran just fine on self-hosted. There is NO adequate TECHNICAL reasoning for that other than "we want your ass on SaaS paying us more money".
And yes.. I foresee a massive migration (especially amongst the hobby group) quickly away from IPS.. then I foresee their "begging for forgiveness" afterwards when a certain orifice starts hurting. I honestly hope folks will simply treat them like vBulletin. A has-been.

Their cloud is too big to be treated like vBulletin, rest assured they damn well know that.

There’s nothing wrong with changing courses and making sure IC keeps running in the long time. I don’t think anyone knows what their expenses look like, the devs they need to hire/pay to make it all work seamlessly. So that might be a reason for them changing courses.

Is it a bad thing they want people to flock over their cloud ? No. From a business perspective, it’s more income and easier to manage, piracy, etc. Most people don’t want to get into the hassle of self host, unless you’ve been in it since the beginning.

I’m not trying to defend them, as I still think able to lose the license is a bad move. But I just understand why they do it.

 

[Tracy]

Is it a bad thing they want people to flock over their cloud ? No. From a business perspective, it’s more income and easier to manage, piracy, etc. Most people don’t want to get into the hassle of self host, unless you’ve been in it since the beginning.

I personally could care less about whether folks want to go to their cloud or not.. what I DO have an issue with is their removing shit that has NO technical related reason for removing and then saying "You want what you USED to have on self-hosted with no issues.. bend over, take it up the posterior and give us MORE money".
Can you give us ANY technical reason why Groups, which was STANDARD in the 4.3 self-hosted script (from 8 years ago) now suddenly "require" the SaaS platform?
Let's not even TALK about their position if you don't "renew on our schedule you have to buy the entire package again" aspect.
I realize as an admin here... you have to "thread the needle".... but as a consumer... I don't.
And I understand why the do it also... four words... MORE MONEY FOR US
As I have said.. I was actually contemplating renewing my IPS license to simply play with and get the latest exposure to their released version and maybe their v5 version.. but his latest game playing... I'd rather take out my pipe lighter and ignite the currency and try to start my pipe with it.

 

[Cedric]

I personally could care less about whether folks want to go to their cloud or not.. what I DO have an issue with is their removing shit that has NO technical related reason for removing and then saying "You want what you USED to have on self-hosted with no issues.. bend over, take it up the posterior and give us MORE money".
Can you give us ANY technical reason why Groups, which was STANDARD in the 4.3 self-hosted script (from 8 years ago) now suddenly "require" the SaaS platform?
Let's not even TALK about their position if you don't "renew on our schedule you have to buy the entire package again" aspect.
I realize as an admin here... you have to "thread the needle".... but as a consumer... I don't.
And I understand why the do it also... four words... MORE MONEY FOR US

Thread the needle.. I’m as much as a consumer as everyone else. I have an active license, which I converted to their new terms. First I was thinking on selling it, but I don’t know. I want to see v5 in person before I take a decision.

So far the upgrade costed me nothing and I gained two months of additional length before renewing.

I agree that taking away aspects that were there without a reasoning is not done. Shows that in the end we have nothing to say and just need to abide their decisions. If anything they need to involve their community into decisions. Or that will backfire at them in the long run.

 

[Tracy]

I agree that taking away aspects that were there without a reasoning is not done. Shows that in the end we have nothing to say and just need to abide their decisions. If anything they need to involve their community into decisions. Or that will backfire at them in the long run.

No, one doesn't have to "abide by their decision"... there are other solutions available. Your statement is no different than saying "well, their spouse/partner needs to stay with him/her because they provide some form if sustenance for them, never mind they abuse them regularly."
One ALWAYS has a choice.. one simply needs to have the "gumption" to make that choice. The problem is WAY to many will simply "roll over and take it". And it is THAT action that IPS banks upon. I'm a classic case.. I was REALLY pissed with XF and was looking at IPS to run on a site (since I already had a license and that domain had originally been on it and I STILL had IPS backups).. but ultimately I recognized the "IPS game play shit" that they do... and went ahead and renewed my XF subscription and migrated the site to it (the second site in my sig and it's currently a "play" site). And that decision was simply amplified by the current crap they are pulling.
And THAT is a major issue... the low-level fruit of the hobbyist/self-hosted network simply continues to allow the abuse to continue. Pretty sure if roughly 25% of the IPS market told them to "fuck off" that they would change their attitude, at least currently.. you don't want to alienate 23%-25% of your current income (this in reference to self-hosted).

 

[Empire]

Thread the needle.. I’m as much as a consumer as everyone else. I have an active license, which I converted to their new terms. First I was thinking on selling it, but I don’t know. I want to see v5 in person before I take a decision.

I'm not expecting V5 to be a "WOW" I mean I'm not super doop about it. I rather have the support that I'm not going to get. Email and Tickets are ended for Self-hosting as we are aware and only community forums can help, even the IPS staff still can answer you anyway.

The worse part about it is that third-party addons are less and less and less. Devs are just leaving or forgetting. I had so many create add-ons that left abominated. IPS is going deeper down that hill and is only interested in big clients and leaving small hobbyists out. I had to disable five add-ons this year since they are not PHP8.2 and the devs left their work and are no longer supporting it. There marketplace is dead nowdays

 

[Tracy]

IPS is going deeper down that hill and is only interested in big clients and leaving small hobbyists out.

Yep... and ironically.. they don't want to currently admit this... as it will KILL roughly 25% of their income from licensing which would sorely screw them over... they wan't to dismiss that segment, meanwhile it still brings in 1/4 of their income (as most hobbyist are also self-hosted).
Honestly.. I'm glad I didn't waste the money on renewing my IPS license..... as much as I've bitched about XF and the piss-poor interaction with their developers.. I place them WELL ahead of IPS.

 

[joelr]

Seems that IPS is back to pulling their standard crap (and sorry @joelr and @Matt M, you are going to have a piss-poor time trying to defend this).
If the below linked thread is (from the post linked forward) an indicator.. they have blown their load. Unless you are a commercial site making LOTS of money..I suggest you look at a migration path.. hell, vBulletin would probably be a more viable option.
I was actually thinking of renewing an outstanding license... but this simply was the stinky "vulture vomit" topping on their previous actions.. trying to defend them is like a MAGA cult member trying to tell you why "their" version of the GOP is "the best". I'm glad that I actually DID settle on extending my XF license instead of IPS. Let's not even talk about the fact that IPS apparently removed the "Groups" from the self hosted community offering (where it has ALWAYS been present) but DID keep it in their SaaS (Cloud) offering... talk about shite walking... wear it proudly IPS. I would suggest a more brownish tone for your default colors though.


<don't get fooled by what the unfurl shows.. the shit-show really gets started at the link itself>

IPS leaks v5 pricing. Slashed pricing for self hosted

IPS has updated their buy page for self hosted customers. They slashed pricing for full suite pricing. Old pricing for full Invision Community Classic was $850 upfront and $300 per year. New pricing is $499 upfront and $199 per year.

www.theadminzone.com

For those of you (specifically you @joelr) that commented on my lack of belief in their continued support of self-hosted scripts (and your promise of a decade of support) and their desire to push every swinging-**** onto their SaaS plan.. this is simply ONE more nail in that coffin of the vampire known as IPS.

Umm. I'm confused.

This is literally making the self hosted version more sustainable, and with simpler licensing terms.

 

[Matt M]

There is some confusion: groups (aka clubs) is not cloud only, it remains available for self-hosted customers too. I think that confusion came from a little box-out on the page where clubs wasn't mentioned. To be clear, it has not been removed from the self-hosted version.

 

[Matt M]

If you want to read through the discussion, feel free: https://invisioncommunity.com/forum...osted-licence-how-to-choose-few-applications/

 

[Cedric]

A lot is just misunderstood.

 

[kensonplays]

I must disagree with what Charles is saying in regards to "you don't get the owners of the company replying to you." I get replies from the XF team even with an inactive license. Just no ticket support, forum only with an expired license. I still get support from Brogan and other team members if they happen to stop into the thread.

The software is nice to use based on the free trial, but $500 is wayyyy too much for someone who is doing it as a hobby. Even 50/mo on the cloud plan is extremely limited. The biggest reason I was looking into IP in the first place is the page builder, and that's not offered on the cheapest SAAS plan, so it's out of the question for me, since I need a page builder and 90-150/mo is way too much for someone building a community as a hobby.

 

[Tracy]

Umm. I'm confused.

This is literally making the self hosted version more sustainable, and with simpler licensing terms.

I don't see how you are getting confused? It simply makes it more expensive for those that only need the forum....

 

[Tracy]

There is some confusion: groups (aka clubs) is not cloud only, it remains available for self-hosted customers too. I think that confusion came from a little box-out on the page where clubs wasn't mentioned. To be clear, it has not been removed from the self-hosted version.

Since it was "shown" on the cloud version.... one would have to make a reasonable expectation if it wasn't shown on the self hosted, it is not included.

Maybe somebody should fix the self-hosted blurb? Especially when you consider THIS for one of the cloud offerings clearly does NOT show it while the others clearly do?

So, can you see where the "confusion" comes from?

 

[joelr]

There's a lot of misunderstanding, and a lot of hysteria.

For clients who can't afford or don't want the new terms, that's totally understandable. Just don't choose them.

I'm a big believer that we're starting to see a sharper differentiation between community providers, which providers better choices for clients. We used to think we could go to any or all ecosystems, but I think many of us are realizing that some are a better fit than others - and that's healthy for the ecosystem to start partitioning the clients they want to target and attract.

 

[Tracy]

but I think many of us are realizing that some are a better fit than others

I've been saying this for years... you pick the tool to do the job you need. What works for me won't work for others, and that applies across the board.
As I have said repeatedly... IPS has a great suite offering... but it's getting to the point that one needs some fairly deep pockets to support it.
XenForo and it's need of 3rd party add-ons is getting the same way.

 

[Empire]

Just today I agreed to their new terms and my license is now changed to the new system that has taken place, I mean V5 is not even here and be a while however I have the power to go with V4 or V5. Even though I do not even know what the future for me is with IPS.

Why, well it ends up being cheaper. Paying £270 a year with the old terms and with the new terms it's now $199, plus I get two extra months free and I now get the full IPS packages (did not have Blogs before) deal. It expires in April 2024, that's eight months' time.

 

[Matt M]

Why, well it ends up being cheaper. Paying £270 a year with the old terms and with the new terms it's now $199, plus I get two extra months free and I now get the full IPS packages (did not have Blogs before) deal. It expires in April 2024, that's eight months' time.

Thanks for the support. We really did try and make it fair for everyone. Those who have invested the most with us, will get the best deal, which seems fair. We put together a focus group to preview, discuss and tweak the new license terms.

A lot of the histrionics in this topic are based on a quick skim of a topic on TAZ which is based on a quick skim of a topic on our site.

 

[Empire]

Thanks for the support. We really did try and make it fair for everyone. Those who have invested the most with us, will get the best deal, which seems fair. We put together a focus group to preview, discuss and tweak the new license terms.

A lot of the histrionics in this topic are based on a quick skim of a topic on TAZ which is based on a quick skim of a topic on our site.

Trying to keep up with the latest blogs regards to V5 and most are asking for a clean up and also SEO. I would agree we have a better, if not a built-in SEO into IPS rather than going outside for it, which makes it easy and fast.

One complaint that I was going to post about is support. Those who are on their own server do not get one on one support via email or ticket system anymore rather than through the community forums, don't get me wrong but seems silly, what it if I had an error or needed help and post a topic about it, then you and the team end up replying to the topic anyway and end up going via email/ticket since it's not suitable to continue in public forums.

I posted a couple of times based on some errors and most of the replies are from the IPS team, yet no difference via email or ticket then huh?

Point saying that I say it was a bad idea to close email/ticket support via the client dashboard, so many clients that are using the self-hosting and with the lack of ways for help or support it doesn't help me as a hobbyist or maybe someone with a lack of knowledge. Please allow it open again, We as clients need to be happy...

 

[Dismal_Bliss]

I'll be switching to the new license agreement also. My annual costs will go down and I will gain some applications that I didn't already have. I also starting a new initiative and am purchasing an additional Invision self-hosted license. I'm very familiar with their software, and have always had good experiences with their support. I've simply learned not to upgrade or do anything strange with my install after business hours, lol.

I spent the last week considering my options. SMF, PhpBB, MyBB, Discourse, VBulletin, Woltlabs, Xenforo, etc. Discourse might have had potential. VBulletin and Woltlabs initial investment would have been akin to Invision. Xenforo would cost less, especially with a second hand license, but I didn't like the sandbox demo I tried out. IPS just feels like home to me, and so I stay.

 

[Cedric]

On a side note: I have the pleasure to interview @CharlesW in the near coming future. So if anyone has specific questions, please forward them discretely through PM. ☺️