💬 Platform Discussion Invision Community v5

[kensonplays]

Don't hang out there since I don't have an active license (and really don't have a desire to get one for only a year or so then be forced to SaaS).
@joelr may be able to give you more feedback.

wait they force you to go SaaS after a year? That doesn't make sense?

 

[Tracy]

wait they force you to go SaaS after a year? That doesn't make sense?

All they have promised is that they are going to offer self-hosting version of the script through version 5 (which is the upcoming version). They have not committed to any longer than that, and odds are they won't as self-hosted is only around a 1/4 of their current clientele and it's apparently a pain in the arse for them to support.... get rid of the self-hosting and they will save themselves some money.
With IPS, you can't download old versions.. you can only download what is current. So if you go self hosted and they stop offering it... the support/updates will then be entirely upon you to provide.
It's why on my pipe site I was waffling between XF and getting a "new" renewal of Woltlab.

 

[kensonplays]

All they have promised is that they are going to offer self-hosting version of the script through version 5 (which is the upcoming version). They have not committed to any longer than that, and odds are they won't as self-hosted is only around a 1/4 of their current clientele and it's apparently a pain in the arse for them to support.... get rid of the self-hosting and they will save themselves some money.

Yea they save themselves money but give us the brunt of the hosting costs, which even the 50/mo plan is too much lol

 

[Tracy]

Yea they save themselves money but give us the brunt of the hosting costs, which even the 50/mo plan is too much lol

They're in it for their profit... not for saving the admin money. But most businesses are.

 

[joelr]

wait they force you to go SaaS after a year? That doesn't make sense?

Don't listen to Tracy.

IPS has publicly stated that they will offer self hosted through v5. Each version has roughly a decade of development, so you're getting self hosted for the next decade.

IPS is not shy about prioritizing their cloud though for the long term. There will be some features that are cloud only, so you should choose which vendor is a better fit for you in the long term.

 

[kensonplays]

Don't listen to Tracy.

IPS has publicly stated that they will offer self hosted through v5. Each version has roughly a decade of development, so you're getting self hosted for the next decade.

IPS is not shy about prioritizing their cloud though for the long term. There will be some features that are cloud only, so you should choose which vendor is a better fit for you in the long term.

What features are cloud only? Since we can't afford 150/mo for page builder full access haha.

 

[kensonplays]

Unfortunately, they want $520 for the first month and 20/mo after for a self-host license. No thanks. lol. I'd be ok with 20/mo, but not 500 additionally.

 

[Tracy]

IPS has publicly stated that they will offer self hosted through v5. Each version has roughly a decade of development, so you're getting self hosted for the next decade.

Neither you nor I know what the future will bring... what we DO know is that once self-hosted script "uptake" are low enough, they most likely will follow their standard procedure of either "rebranding" or bringing out a new version number and declaring that version 5 ist tot. They aren't going to keep it going if it's costing them money, and they currently are pushing SaaS for all it's worth to get existing self-hosted license holders OFF self-hosting and into their SaaS offering. Hell, you see it regularly in postings over on their site much less a certain admin site.
When you have a vendor saying "we'll support it for version XXX" instead of "we will support it for 10 years" (your statement of how long they will)... you leave that wiggle room that a certain provider is so fond of taking advantage of.

Each version has roughly a decade of development, so you're getting self hosted for the next decade.

Yep... remind us about perpetual licenses.
And no, I really don't give a crap if that was 15 years ago... AFAIK, the definition of perpetual hasn't changed. What changes is the way that the provider choses to interpret the meaning of the word. The ONLY word important to them is "profit". And no, that's not a bad thing... but it IS reality.

As the old saying goes... fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.
When dealing with any vendor... you need to be aware of their history, as it actually does tend to repeat itself.
And that's not limited to IPS. There was a point where XF developers were radio silent... then they became active again... then they recently went back to pretty much radio silence in interaction on their support forum.

 

[kensonplays]

Unfortunately, their pricing is pretty crazy. Especially for certain features like no page builder access on the Beginner tier . . . IMO they should put that on the beginner tier with full access on the 90/mo tier instead of 150.

I was considering IPS, but nope, not anymore. That pricing structure is too insane for us.

 

[Tracy]

That pricing structure is too insane for us.

They prefer the deeper pocketbooks. Hobbyist sites are not a primary concern of theirs.
It is a fantastic script for those that can afford it.

 

[kensonplays]

They prefer the deeper pocketbooks. Hobbyist sites are not a primary concern of theirs.
It is a fantastic script for those that can afford it.

if only XF had a decent visual page builder. lol

 

[Tracy]

if only XF had a decent visual page builder. lol

HTML editors should work fine... it's what was used "back in the day" to make some really nice sites.
Personally... I find more use for articles and such, as you can do so much more with them.

 

[kensonplays]

HTML editors should work fine... it's what was used "back in the day" to make some really nice sites.
Personally... I find more use for articles and such, as you can do so much more with them.

The issue is, I suck at coding, so I need visual. Until a good visual page builder is out, I can only do extremely basic pages, nothing fancy.

 

[Tracy]

The issue is, I suck at coding, so I need visual. Until a good visual page builder is out, I can only do extremely basic pages, nothing fancy.

Pretty sure there are several HTML (and a lot of them free) editors out there.

 

[Cedric]

They prefer the deeper pocketbooks. Hobbyist sites are not a primary concern of theirs.
It is a fantastic script for those that can afford it.

There’s a difference between can afford and want to afford. IPS has changed their focus to corporate/business forums a long time ago.

They still encourage hobbyists, but they tend to invest less than a business would. So you can’t blame them changing course.

They never said support will stop nor will they quit self-hosted licenses IIRC.

 

[kensonplays]

Pretty sure there are several HTML (and a lot of them free) editors out there.

Unless you can drag 'n drop to build the page visually, it won't be any help for me. lol

 

[Tracy]

They never said support will stop nor will they quit self-hosted licenses IIRC.

And they won't... until they do. They aren't going to cut their throat and kill off 25% (approximate) of their current income by coming out and flat stating what they know they will be doing.
They are intelligent enough to realize that as soon as they made that statement, current self-hosted clients that will NOT convert to their SaaS offering will start looking (and leaving) to other platforms.
I'm not even going to get into the "you need to submit a ticket, we don't support the script on the forums" stance of the past (and the way they were called out about how inefficient that was) to their current "You need to start using the forum for support and if you want to be able to submit tickets, you need to pay us extra monies", since ticket support started eating into the income stream.

 

[Tracy]

Unless you can drag 'n drop to build the page visually, it won't be any help for me. lol

Visual HTML editors are pretty much that. Then you simply take that code and paste it into where you need it. You probably (if you use images) will have to upload those resources also.

 

[kensonplays]

Visual HTML editors are pretty much that. Then you simply take that code and paste it into where you need it. You probably (if you use images) will have to upload those resources also.

There is an "official" way to create a thread using bbcode, viewing page source, then pasting a certain section of code to a page node, but that doesn't make it easy to edit later on, since I usually delete the thread after the page is created.

And I'm not very happy with them not offering a way for hobbyist people to really be able to make use of their software. Pricing is not good for hobbyists, they're leaving out a possible chunk of sales there. I would gladly pay 20/mo (well, maybe half of it, friend covering other half) to access it on my site, since I don't really expect to make an income back from the site. But their forcing a $500 initial charge in addition to 20/mo cuts out pretty much all hobby sites. 99% of hobby sites most likely would NOT pay $500 plus 20 for first month, in addition to the 20/mo after.

Not a very smart business decision, IMO. If I was building something similar, I would offer a deal to hobby sites/communities that would make it a heck of a lot more affordable, maybe by removing commerce features.

 

[Tracy]

Not a very smart business decision, IMO. If I was building something similar, I would offer a deal to hobby sites/communities that would make it a heck of a lot more affordable, maybe by removing commerce features.

Their base started from the hobbyist market... but they made a financial decision to pursue the deep pockets of commercial sites and those few hobbyist who don't mind cutting loose the money.
And I do not begrudge them that... but they are STILL very dependent upon those deep pocket hobbyist that they tend to want to ignore... as there is a noticeable segment of those in their current stable of license holders. It's basically the same scenario of their self-hosted option... it currently brings in a good slice of the pie for them... and that's why they won't come out and tell you when they will cease supporting it... only "hinting" around that "well, you WILL have it through version 5".
Like I've said (and it's a sore point with some IPS admins), I put more "faith" into the historical actions of a company... if those in control at the top remain the same, their actions usually emulate past ones.