Ban bypassing?

[ClicketyKat]

How do you treat members who bypass bans?

 

[Tracy]

Once discovered... ban that account also. It can turn into a case of "whack-a-mole" though.

 

[ClicketyKat]

Once discovered... ban that account also. It can turn into a case of "whack-a-mole" though.

Is that common among ban bypassers?

 

[Shawn Gossman]

How do you treat members who bypass bans?

Ban them again but without the ability to appeal at that point. Before that, in certain circumstances, I might let them appeal their ban and be able to come back. But if you bypass the ban - you can't come back after that.

Is that common among ban bypassers?

It is if they know what they're doing.

For example, I could reset/replace my IP address and use a burner email address and get back into most forums.

I'm sure there are ways to make it difficult, though.

 

[Uncrowned]

Is that common among ban bypassers?

Sadly, it is almost impossible to fully ban a user who has a bit of a tech background. Perhaps one day AI will do so, but I don't know of any software that can truly prevent a user from returning.

 

[veloman]

Ban them again but without the ability to appeal at that point. Before that, in certain circumstances, I might let them appeal their ban and be able to come back. But if you bypass the ban - you can't come back after that.


It is if they know what they're doing.

For example, I could reset/replace my IP address and use a burner email address and get back into most forums.

I'm sure there are ways to make it difficult, though.

I've found that my mobile will often change IP - possibly to do with different towers. A lot of broadband connections also have dynamic IPs these days as well, so my IP changes fairly regularly.

The only real way to stop trolls is to make them bored. Shadowban them, mark them as bots, automatically/manually edit posts, anything to basically make it stop being fun.

 

[Uncrowned]

Shadowbanning would be a neat feature to see in a forum. Just let them post away and no one can see it.

 

[Tracy]

Shadowban them, mark them as bots, automatically/manually edit posts, anything to basically make it stop being fun.

That's one of the beauties of XF... the discourage feature.

 

[Shawn Gossman]

That's one of the beauties of XF... the discourage feature.

I've not played around enough with Discourage. Does it pretty much just shadow-ban the user, or does it mess your their account like slow things down, present errors, etc.

 

[~ True Legend ~]

Sadly, it is almost impossible to fully ban a user who has a bit of a tech background. Perhaps one day AI will do so, but I don't know of any software that can truly prevent a user from returning.

I do. PM me if you want more info.

 

[~ True Legend ~]

That's one of the beauties of XF... the discourage feature.

That messes up the forum with slow-downs, delays and error pages rather than shadow-banning though.

 

[~ True Legend ~]

Ban them again but without the ability to appeal at that point. Before that, in certain circumstances, I might let them appeal their ban and be able to come back. But if you bypass the ban - you can't come back after that.

And extend a ban that is temporary?

 

[ClicketyKat]

Shadowbanning would be a neat feature to see in a forum. Just let them post away and no one can see it.

I thought there was an add on that did that? Maybe it was for Vbulletin? I can't remember. I just know someone brought it up on a forum I run and I nixed it right away because that would be really harsh to do to someone.

 

[~ True Legend ~]

I thought there was an add on that did that? Maybe it was for Vbulletin? I can't remember. I just know someone brought it up on a forum I run and I nixed it right away because that would be really harsh to do to someone.

Agreed, i don’t believe in wasting a user’s time. Imagine they’d log out, not see their post and either post a thread asking what’s going on making the site look bad to new users, or them asking elsewhere, getting their answer and then getting pissed off - registering a new account to create havoc to get revenge if they have enough time on their hands and mental immaturity. Oh, yeah!

 

[Tracy]

That messes up the forum with slow-downs, delays and error pages rather than shadow-banning though.

yep.... and the issue is?
It only does it for the user under discouragement. You make it "bad" enough, they'll get tired and go elsewhere.

Anyone of basic intelligence would realize that none of their posts get replied to, there has to be a reason... and to confirm all they have to do is log out.
The above makes the user think it's something wrong either with their internet or the site they are connecting with. It's less likely to "stand out" to the user.

 

[~ True Legend ~]

yep.... and the issue is?
It only does it for the user under discouragement. You make it "bad" enough, they'll get tired and go elsewhere.

View attachment 147

Anyone of basic intelligence would realize that none of their posts get replied to, there has to be a reason... and to confirm all they have to do is log out.
The above makes the user think it's something wrong either with their internet or the site they are connecting with. It's less likely to "stand out" to the user.

I think it would be suspicious if the site was slow only when they were logged in.

Sure, you can discourage an IP address but all it takes is a forum post elsewhere or a contact with ppl they know if they experience issues with that site. Any reasonably tech-savvy person knows what an IP address is.

 

[Tracy]

think it would be suspicious if the site was slow only when they were logged in.

You can also discourage by IP in addition to user, which eliminates that "if they aren't logged in" aspect.

forum post elsewhere or a contact with ppl they know if they experience issues with that site

And a "shadow ban" is different how? That same user can go to those same people and ask 'what did you think about my post' and then be told nobody saw a post. It's less likely for a user to ask others if they are having issues than asking "hey, I made a comment to you, why didn't you reply".

Any"reasonable knowledgeable person" can get around almost any ban that can be performed... even ASN, country, continent blocks.
But your "normal every day user" is not going to rise to that level unless they are a serial troll... and those have faced the issues enough, they know how to get around it.

 

[~ True Legend ~]

You can also discourage by IP in addition to user, which eliminates that "if they aren't logged in" aspect.

View attachment 148



And a "shadow ban" is different how? That same user can go to those same people and ask 'what did you think about my post' and then be told nobody saw a post. It's less likely for a user to ask others if they are having issues than asking "hey, I made a comment to you, why didn't you reply".

Any"reasonable knowledgeable person" can get around almost any ban that can be performed... even ASN, country, continent blocks.
But your "normal every day user" is not going to rise to that level unless they are a serial troll... and those have faced the issues enough, they know how to get around it.

Well, i just feel that it’s best to be upfront. I think it’s healthy for the atmosphere when members know the line.

 

[Tracy]

Well, i just feel that it’s best to be upfront. I think it’s healthy for the atmosphere when members know the line.

Agreed for MOST.. but then you have those "special few".
My point was... shadow ban or discourage... a knowledgeable user will figure out either... but a normal user will not be as "troubled" by "site issues" compared to NEVER getting a reply. I mean honestly.. they post 20 replies and don't get squat back? Red flag for anyone? Meanwhile, the other "regular" user gets slowdowns no matter whether logged in or not since he doesn't use a VPN or any other "sneaky" method of hiding who they are (which once more, indicates a more knowledgeable user).

 

[~ True Legend ~]

Agreed for MOST.. but then you have those "special few".
My point was... shadow ban or discourage... a knowledgeable user will figure out either... but a normal user will not be as "troubled" by "site issues" compared to NEVER getting a reply. I mean honestly.. they post 20 replies and don't get squat back? Red flag for anyone? Meanwhile, the other "regular" user gets slowdowns no matter whether logged in or not since he doesn't use a VPN or any other "sneaky" method of hiding who they are (which once more, indicates a more knowledgeable user).

Why do you feel the need to give a few users special treatment? 🤪