I hate to mention it... but

[Tracy]

For an admin site.. there is an over-abundance of chit-chat type topics and a dearth of admin related here.
Yes, I continue to visit here for the occasional synthetic stone (sorry, haven't come across a diamond yet).
Granted, chit-chat type topics will occur on sites like this.. but honestly, they don't need to be front and center and a large portion of this site consists of that.
Really.. is it a vital interest for an admin if one plays chess. Does anyone really care what you are listening to? Or what the last game you played was or how the weather is or what show you are watching.
These type topics actually detract from what most look for in an admin related niche site.... I come to learn about admin topics... not day to day fluff.
The topics that need to hold that position are niche related. I realize that XenForo is sorely lacking in the native ability to do this.. but if one is going to concentrate on a specific niche, then one needs to pursue how to prevent the fluff from being pushed front & center.
If you want a chatter area, there are MORE than adequate sites out there that relate to what ultimate relates to general chatter. I pretty much overlook about 75% of the posts here since they are not topically related.. and I'm pretty sure that there are others that are similar.
The site really needs to concentrate on what it is targeted at when putting information at the front and not be as concerned with pushing every post towards a level of importance to the niche it does not have.
And no, I am not saying "ban/prohibit" the other type posts.. but topics related to the niche really need to be pushed to the forefront and the other unrelated BS sit in the background.

 

[Cedric]

Well let's see.

There's one admin site where it's more old content and chit chat.
There's another admin site where there are hardly any admin related topics, it's just chit chat.
There's another admin site where there's some admin talk, but it's pretty much inactive.
Then there's us, we aren't the most active, but there's some good discussions along with chit chat.

So yes. There's that. I don't mind a few chit chat topics, but I'm not going to close or delete any non-admin topics. It's inevitable those co-exist to other niche related topics.

But I do see where you're coming from. However, did you know you can ignore some forums and their content?



Now, I do admit I've been severely slacking in pushing new content lately. I've been busy with work and I desperately need some more time to write out new topics. That will come in the near future. We've all been a bit caught up with real life. So progress has been a bit slow. Nonetheless, I'm working on a new theme soon and some good updates with fresh content.

The MAF event has been removed, it didn't go as planned due to time restriction, but we're not done yet.

 

[Tracy]

But I do see where you're coming from. However, did you know you can ignore some forums and their content?

The point I was trying to make is that I should not have to electively ignore those forums... a niche like this should in reality be pushing topics related to it to the front and those that are more "chit chat" in nature should not be front and center by default.

We've all been a bit caught up with real life.

We all are caught up in that.. but I am not referring specifically to staff creation of content. I just now got around to creating a basic article on my site relating to setting up N.I.N.A. on a computer.. and that was not a simple thing to document as I had to wipe the mini PC and start over from scratch to cover what I had to do the first time. And it is still an ongoing article as I have to try out some additional alternative programs and then document them.
And all this going on while I'm having to rebuild a lawn mower, replace a grey water line, repaint/replace the facia on the house and a few other odds and ends I simply won't mention (and remember, this is being done by someone 6+ decades on this planet).

Granted, XenForo is sorely lacking in how it allows an admin to control what is presented front and center in its core structure. But that should be something of concern of any site that has a financial incentive to emphasize their niche.

 

[Cedric]

The point I was trying to make is that I should not have to electively ignore those forums... a niche like this should in reality be pushing topics related to it to the front and those that are more "chit chat" in nature should not be front and center by default.


We all are caught up in that.. but I am not referring specifically to staff creation of content. I just now got around to creating a basic article on my site relating to setting up N.I.N.A. on a computer.. and that was not a simple thing to document as I had to wipe the mini PC and start over from scratch to cover what I had to do the first time. And it is still an ongoing article as I have to try out some additional alternative programs and then document them.
And all this going on while I'm having to rebuild a lawn mower, replace a grey water line, repaint/replace the facia on the house and a few other odds and ends I simply won't mention (and remember, this is being done by someone 6+ decades on this planet).

Granted, XenForo is sorely lacking in how it allows an admin to control what is presented front and center in its core structure. But that should be something of concern of any site that has a financial incentive to emphasize their niche.

Well I’m been trying to find the magical key how to present the correct content at the first seconds for like a year and a half now.

But I’ll definitely look into it and might even step away from the traditional forum view list.

 

[ten thousand]

I've had the same observations as Tracy.

There are 40 total posts on the new posts page: nearly half (19) are off topic, of the remaining 21 there are 11 resources (e.g. mods/add-ons), leaving just 10 for community admin topics. I don't think it's as much about presentation as it is about what kind of content the community is creating. It seems skewed more heavily towards off-topic content.

Presentation: you already put all of your most important forums on the top while relegating the general chat to just the very last 2 on the index which seems correct to me, but part of what makes the general chat feel so dominant is that the new posts feed at the top is always full of those topics. I would look into excluding them from that feed, or to split it out into a different feed and let the community management / admin stuff take focus up there.

Content: I think Cedric, the staff as a whole, and a handful of active members have done a great job of creating interesting discussions about running communities. In the early years of a community it's a given that content is a top-down effort, the founders and staff are often responsible for creating enough of an initial critical mass of discussions until the community can fully take over, at which point the staff are more there to set examples for people to follow. I think AJ is somewhere in between the phases leaning more on the side of early/top-down, so creation from staff is still needed -- my advice would be to keep doing what you're doing with creating those admin / community management discussions, but to try to shy away from participating as much in the off-topic sections. I know **any** activity feels like good activity, but not all activity is created equal. 1 interesting admin discussion is worth 20 off-topic discussions.

 

[Cedric]

I've had the same observations as Tracy.

There are 40 total posts on the new posts page: nearly half (19) are off topic, of the remaining 21 there are 11 resources (e.g. mods/add-ons), leaving just 10 for community admin topics. I don't think it's as much about presentation as it is about what kind of content the community is creating. It seems skewed more heavily towards off-topic content.

Presentation: you already put all of your most important forums on the top while relegating the general chat to just the very last 2 on the index which seems correct to me, but part of what makes the general chat feel so dominant is that the new posts feed at the top is always full of those topics. I would look into excluding them from that feed, or to split it out into a different feed and let the community management / admin stuff take focus up there.

Well it's easier to post chit chat than to form a longer post in topics that matter the most. Not everyone has the time or just wants to participate in the meaningful discussions. That's why it's often more chit chat than our niche topics. It's something to think about .. How can we put our niche topics more in front. I've already done plenty to disable chit chat in several feeds, but there's still some work to do, I'll admit that.

Content: I think Cedric, the staff as a whole, and a handful of active members have done a great job of creating interesting discussions about running communities. In the early years of a community it's a given that content is a top-down effort, the founders and staff are often responsible for creating enough of an initial critical mass of discussions until the community can fully take over, at which point the staff are more there to set examples for people to follow. I think AJ is somewhere in between the phases leaning more on the side of early/top-down, so creation from staff is still needed -- my advice would be to keep doing what you're doing with creating those admin / community management discussions, but to try to shy away from participating as much in the off-topic sections. I know **any** activity feels like good activity, but not all activity is created equal. 1 interesting admin discussion is worth 20 off-topic discussions.

Yep, our work isn't done yet, and I've been slacking in creating content, doing member of the month, auctions, website of the month, etc. Hopefully that will change soon. I don't want to keep hiring staff and end up having 75% of all active users being staff like other forums. But I definitely agree with all points here.

 

[ten thousand]

Well it's easier to post chit chat than to form a longer post in topics that matter the most. Not everyone has the time or just wants to participate in the meaningful discussions. That's why it's often more chit chat than our niche topics.

I get where you're coming from, I suppose my point is that you probably want to seriously de-emphasize those people. If a person doesn't have the time or interest to talk about admining communities then why are they on a community dedicated to that topic? If they only want to chit chat there are thousands of other communities (many advertised here on AJ!) they can join to get that, and they'd probably be happier there anyway.

It'd be healthier for AJ to cater to the people who are here for its niche even if it means a lower overall activity/post count. Focusing on finding and bringing into the fold the people who have the time and interest to discuss running communities will lead to longer-term success, even if it's slower-going to get there.

Also: thank you to Cedric and the staff for running AJ! My critiques are not to say that I don't appreciate all of the hard work you all are doing. This is just a view from the outside, and hey, we **are** on a forum that likes to discuss how to run forums. :)

 

[Cedric]

I get where you're coming from, I suppose my point is that you probably want to seriously de-emphasize those people. If a person doesn't have the time or interest to talk about admining communities then why are they on a community dedicated to that topic? If they only want to chit chat there are thousands of other communities (many advertised here on AJ!) they can join to get that, and they'd probably be happier there anyway.

It'd be healthier for AJ to cater to the people who are here for its niche even if it means a lower overall activity/post count. Focusing on finding and bringing into the fold the people who have the time and interest to discuss running communities will lead to longer-term success, even if it's slower-going to get there.

Also: thank you to Cedric and the staff for running AJ! My critiques are not to say that I don't appreciate all of the hard work you all are doing. This is just a view from the outside, and hey, we **are** on a forum that likes to discuss how to run forums.

You have a point. It's not easy to demotivate people who chit chat and have little to no intention to our core niche. Not without stepping some toes. There's a fine line between allowing it and destroying a community vibe. So it's something to carefully look at.

I've now edited the activity feed on top, to motivate more core niche discussions. And added an off topic separately. I'll have a brainstorm what else I can do. Any suggestions are always welcome.

Thanks for the support people.

 

[Ravenfreak]

Honestly I like the feedback in this thread. Admin Junkies is a webmaster community built by website enthusiasts and we should definitely look into adding more content to the webmaster related sections. It's understandable to have some slower periods and it's definitely okay to have activity in the off topic sections too but we should definitely be adding more webmaster related topics. Thank you all for the feedback!

 

[ladyquack]

I would definitely enjoy more admin-focused content, but I actually happen to like the chit chat topics. It helps me see that the members here are actually people with lives outside of adminning and are capable of interacting with others, and it helps me make decisions about what communities I might or might not want to join in the future.

 

[Tracy]

Well I’m been trying to find the magical key how to present the correct content at the first seconds for like a year and a half now.

But I’ll definitely look into it and might even step away from the traditional forum view list.

I know that XF doesn't have the native ability to filter the what's new by topical area in the whats new style feeds (it is lacking a lot in this area and could take some lessons from another developer). It may be worth considering engaging a developer to see about coding an add-on that allows the admin to filter the what's new based upon a priority rating from the ACP if you don't already have one. Put more weight on the posts in the niche topic related areas so they filter to the top and then tamp the others at the bottom.
That was the point I was trying to make... apparently not very successfully.
When someone comes to the site they usually are looking at more topically related posts and if interested in the "fluff" can then go into those other nodes.
When the "trending" feed consists mainly of those fluff posts and very little of the niche content a user is looking for, they are not going to be as likely to deep dive into the rest of the site.

And this applies to any site. If you are in a niche, you need to do your best to push your niche content front and center as much as possible. We all realize that in most sites there will some general chatter, heck that even happens in niche targeted threads.
It's one of the things that can be so aggravating with a script. We as users/admins realize what we need but the developers sometimes tend to ignore that while they chase their own desires.

And yes, the feed for new posts seems to be much cleaner and on topic.
I wish XF had the ability for each user to create their own new content feed according to their criteria.

 

[Jason]

My drumming forum has a huge off-topic area and also areas for related topics like general music, guitar, bass, and piano. Anyway, I'm not so strict about things, but I sort of hide the off-topic area, because I want the focus to be on music, at least.

 

[Tracy]

My drumming forum has a huge off-topic area and also areas for related topics like general music, guitar, bass, and piano. Anyway, I'm not so strict about things, but I sort of hide the off-topic area, because I want the focus to be on music, at least.

I think every forum has a catch-all node for stuff like that. Even mine does.
It's better to try to push the non-niche topics to the background and the niche to the front as most people coming to a niche site are looking for content on that.

 

[Jason]

A big problem is some niches are difficult for people to write for. In that case, a lot would go to off-topic.

 

[Tracy]

A big problem is some niches are difficult for people to write for. In that case, a lot would go to off-topic.

Generally folks visiting a niche site are visiting for niche content, not general chatter. That's why you almost have to have a general chatter area because even niche forums get off-topic posts. You provide an area for that and then moderate your niche related for off-topic and move them over to the general chatter area when you catch it. Sometimes I've even seen a niche related topic go off-topic into general chat. As long as it doesn't get to bad that is not a big deal, but if it derails the niche topic it is time to move those posts into another thread in the off-topic area.

 

[Jason]

Off-topic is a good way to get to know people past what's they know of the main niche. Anyway, though, of course, some members are private. They don't want to spill their guts out in public and, in some cases, I can understand.

 

[Darth Cognus]

If a forum is filled with filler, I think it would be very hard to draw an actual audience. After all the niche is the critical way of securing common interest. The rapport can come come with time from there. AJ imo does an outstanding job as far as I can tell at least trying to put the niche first.

I think the issue lies with what sort of audience the board has right now. Most communities I've seen coming off AJ are very small, not particularly lively, likely trying very hard to push a brand and struggling, leaning towards off topic or admin/promotion themselves. Much of the content gives me the vibe of being posted to keep the pulse up and not necessarily true engagement. The deader places have well, death to worry about and imo content bundles generally don't have the impact I think people want them to have. I took a visit at a board just now that got a bundle and it's filled with filler such as how the weather is and other things that do not pertain to indie creation, and from a skim of that index I have no particular reason to visit and engage. The observant user can tell it's odd people coming in, dropping a conspicuously round number of posts and leaving the place dead again. I know a little too well that such activity doesn't sustain. These posts do little to attract shmucks like me and in the case of the ill-fated star wars forum that started me off here, only Dismal particularly engaged with me while 'on the job' in a way that kept me interested to see more despite his limited knowledge/interest regarding the actual niche. Naturally, given the limited nature of bundles, there would not be more... I also had a very meta experience a few minutes ago of visiting a promotion board off AJ and the first thing I saw from it was another promotion board. It's a self fulfilling cycle I think. Meanwhile people get flat lucky and are in the right place at the right time and thrive entirely without knowing a place like this or even promotion boards exist.

AJ does have a decent splattering of technical/community conversation and a bit of spice, I think it's the lack of any large scale experience that makes it tricky. The experience here seems to be very small time and lean towards very casual or 'web promotion' subjects. I do like small time but wooing some experienced users from larger communities or more distinct niches, be it as posters or article writers could do well in giving this place an edge. Maybe there should be an outreach team that interviews the folks at spacebattles.com how they're managing it. Etc. I mean team in the lightest possible term as assembling manpower for these things is never trivial and will probably fall on someone like Cedric, if lucky a couple others in their spare time.

 

[Cedric]

If a forum is filled with filler, I think it would be very hard to draw an actual audience. After all the niche is the critical way of securing common interest. The rapport can come come with time from there. AJ imo does an outstanding job as far as I can tell at least trying to put the niche first.

I think the issue lies with what sort of audience the board has right now. Most communities I've seen coming off AJ are very small, not particularly lively, likely trying very hard to push a brand and struggling, leaning towards off topic or admin/promotion themselves. Much of the content gives me the vibe of being posted to keep the pulse up and not necessarily true engagement. The deader places have well, death to worry about and imo content bundles generally don't have the impact I think people want them to have. I took a visit at a board just now that got a bundle and it's filled with filler such as how the weather is and other things that do not pertain to indie creation, and from a skim of that index I have no particular reason to visit and engage. The observant user can tell it's odd people coming in, dropping a conspicuously round number of posts and leaving the place dead again. I know a little too well that such activity doesn't sustain. These posts do little to attract shmucks like me and in the case of the ill-fated star wars forum that started me off here, only Dismal particularly engaged with me while 'on the job' in a way that kept me interested to see more despite his limited knowledge/interest regarding the actual niche. Naturally, given the limited nature of bundles, there would not be more... I also had a very meta experience a few minutes ago of visiting a promotion board off AJ and the first thing I saw from it was another promotion board. It's a self fulfilling cycle I think. Meanwhile people get flat lucky and are in the right place at the right time and thrive entirely without knowing a place like this or even promotion boards exist.

AJ does have a decent splattering of technical/community conversation and a bit of spice, I think it's the lack of any large scale experience that makes it tricky. The experience here seems to be very small time and lean towards very casual or 'web promotion' subjects. I do like small time but wooing some experienced users from larger communities or more distinct niches, be it as posters or article writers could do well in giving this place an edge. Maybe there should be an outreach team that interviews the folks at spacebattles.com how they're managing it. Etc. I mean team in the lightest possible term as assembling manpower for these things is never trivial and will probably fall on someone like Cedric, if lucky a couple others in their spare time.

That makes a lot of sense, thanks. It all comes to good and bad days I suppose. I'm a bit busy with work at the moment and I think I also suffered a small burn out from being on forums. That didn't help. I'm slowly regaining my interest again so I'll be back posting lots of content real soon. I've got some good updates planned for when I have some more time and then I'll also restart our member of the month, website of the month, auctions, etc. Stay tuned everyone.

 

[joelr]

I read this conversation many days ago when it was first created.

Some broad thoughts on many things in this topic:
1. The strength of small communities is the passion of its Webmaster. The weakness of small communities is the passion of its Webmaster.

2. Are you hosting a success site for your niche where your goal is to actually improve the outcomes for your members? Or are you hosting a social site for your niche where your goal is to connect and hang out?

3. There is a natural equilibrium of conversations that the community tends towards to over time. Is that the equilibrium that you want?

 

[JoshB]

I think bringing more niche-focused threads and postings requires a bit more thinking when creating the wanted content here. This isn't a bad thing and as such is something I would like to see more of as well. For the general, off-topic content, it's easier just to slap a thread and call it a day.

I know I could start adding more postings and threads, and I plan on doing it. I also would like to see others doing this as well. I know that the world of forum admining hasn't been mined out, there's more that we can learn and share.