How much is a fair price for a theme?

[Arantor]

Scenario: a reasonably well-known developer for a forum system is offering a theme for sale. It is a pretty detailed theme, on trend, decently implemented. Includes hand-drawn graphics.

This is not an exclusive; this will be sold to other people.

How much would a reasonable or unreasonable price for this be? NB I don't want to provide screenshots or links at this stage to either the design or the price because there's a lot of argument that the theme is highly overpriced. I'm not so sure but then again the theme price is far less than I charge for a single day's work so...

 

[Cedric]

What software are we talking about? Assuming it’s XF, IPS or WL, anything between 25-45 USD is reasonably priced for a non exclusive theme. If it’s really well designed, stands out from other themes, one of a kind, it could go up to 75-100USD but that’s really a big IF. Anything above that, is just trying to rip off people.

 

[Arantor]

This was a Jcink theme.

And it contained a number of things beyond just the usual 'style the list of boards, style the list of topics, style a topic, vaguely have a go at everything else', e.g. customising the memberlist with third party scripts and so on.

As for standing out... that's an interesting question because it sort of does (it is more polished than some of its peers) but at the same time it's completely in line with what that part of the scene thinks is normal stylistically. It's sort of hard to explain without me giving details and I'm trying to get a broader sample of thoughts in before I share specifics.

 

[Cedric]

To be fair, I haven’t ever seen a jcink theme for sale. It isn’t the norm nor was it ever on ZetaBoards. Everything was free, and IF you wanted a custom theme that wasn’t given for free (which was the case for 90% of the time) it would set you back around 50 USD at most.

But that wasn’t including any 3rd party scripts.

So again. We’re at a point where I feel you’re talking about something above 100USD where I think it may be a rip off. The market isn’t ready for 100+ USD themes that aren’t custom. Not on XF, IPS or WL, not on vBulletin, and especially not on Jcink.

 

[Husk]

For me, I was willing to pay (and did) upwards of $200 for a fully customized SMF theme. I actually commissioned 3-4 of them from the same creator because she was highly talented and customized everything. I was super happy with her work and I felt it was worth the price tag to stand out and to also have everything I wanted in the theme.

Jcink, I wouldn't pay more than maybe $50 depending on the bells and whistles added. Most of the things I wanted in a Jcink skin I could do myself anyway. The option to pay for a premade skin was just an "ADHD tax" (I could do it myself but was too lazy to finish anything on my own.)

Besides, ,most of the stuff Jcink themers want to slap a higher price tag onto are pretty standard scripts that they lifted elsewhere and are just copy and pasting into the code.

 

[Cory]

As someone who codes Jcink skins freely for a wide variety of administrators to use, I honestly wouldn't spend much on a skin that is not exclusive to your board. It may take a lot of effort to create an astounding skin, but there remains the fact that you can find so many free, non-exclusive skins to use on your board across the network. Multitudes of people have tried to pay me on Jcink for my coding work, but I always turned them down due to me not looking for funding for my work, but something I do as a hobby that I have a passion for.

Now, if the skin were exclusive to one board only, that's a different ballgame.

 

[joelr]

What's the price range of existing themes in the ecosystem's Marketplace? I feel like pricing on themes is very relative to the ecosystem.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Jcink offers free forum hosting. People who use Jcink are likely to demand a certain level of payment (the free, zero cost kind LOL), and might be very sensitive to elevated prices (eg. $50 vs $30).

I don't know if it's worthwhile to make a generalized observation on fair pricing in relation to the entire self hosted forum ecosystem, or to compare it to your personal billing hours.

 

[Arantor]

That was the interesting observation.

Jcink themes vary quite a bit actually - $30-$70 for the theme itself isn’t uncommon, but then there’s the question of add-on bits whereby factoring those in, $70-$120 isn’t so uncommon.

This particular theme was priced at $150 with all the extras/nice to haves included, rather than separate add-ons, and I rather suspect the price appeared higher than it might have because there was only the “go big or go home” package (my term).

What I found interesting is not so much the debate of whether that’s too high or not (and I think the consensus is that it is a bit high, though see the point that it isn’t just a theme in the conventional sense, it does have other templates to go with it, and the additional script features are all comparable with its paid peers). The interesting part was how the bandwagon very swiftly turned into how Jcink theming isn’t web design (I don’t see how it isn’t, you’re still doing HTML, CSS, JS), and then into how easy it is to skin generally, and just make your own, it isn’t that hard, you should be done in only a few hours.

I can and have skinned Jcink. I am also professionally a web dev. If the benchmark is 10 hours as stated in many of the angry comments on the subject, I wouldn’t get it done in that time. Not for the amount of work that was on display.

Perhaps if I had a ready-made base to start from that I’d already made, maybe. But those take time too.

Personally I think much of the original debate is ridiculous, filled with bloviating hotheads who have limited conception of what the work actually entails. In my mind, it wasn’t that unfair a price (it’s a little high but not wildly so) and if it’s too rich for you, there are alternatives that are cheaper and maybe more suitable. I’ve always been a believer in “you pay your money and you take your choice”, to quote Status Quo, and I know that quality costs.

But then again this is also why I don’t generally use Jcink…

 

[joelr]

I mean, if the observation is that normal users (who are not developers) are bad at guessing the real work involved in crafting, well, anything technical whether a theme or a mod, then ... Yes, yes we are wildly bad at guesstimating .

Also, consumers are wildly stupid too. You can offer a low base price, and then add on expensive add-ons (looking at you EA!!), and consumers will fall into the trap of a little pain versus one big pain.

 

[Tracy]

A theme/style that is generic and used by multiple purchases... $30-$50 for a core one. A bespoke offering... from $200-$500, dependent upon what is offered. If you are simply shoving functions that are easily available elsewhere as "additions" to a core theme... then don't expect premium price. If you want to charge premium prices... you need to offer bespoke ability.

 

[Jason]

It depends on your income. However, actually, a person on disability benefits or even a full or part-time minimum wage job can afford a typical theme these days, assuming they budget the cash.

 

[ladyquack]

For a pre-made skin, no matter the platform/software, I wouldn't pay more than $75.

I'm not surprised that it was a Jcink skin. I've seen pre-mades listed for almost $200 at times, which I think is too pricey for a pre-made. But I guess I also feel this way as someone who used to provide free Jcink (and Invisionfree and IPBFree) skins back in the day.

 

[Cedric]

For a pre-made skin, no matter the platform/software, I wouldn't pay more than $75.

I'm not surprised that it was a Jcink skin. I've seen pre-mades listed for almost $200 at times, which I think is too pricey for a pre-made. But I guess I also feel this way as someone who used to provide free Jcink (and Invisionfree and IPBFree) skins back in the day.

I must’ve been living under a rock. That’s crazy. Never expected jcink skins to go for so much.

 

[Ravenfreak]

I never realized how expensive jcink skins could get either. I agree if the theme is a custom theme you should be expected to pay a little more than you would for a theme that they offer to everyone. For Jcink I wouldn't pay more than $55, there's many free options that look great but it would be nice to have a custom theme if I made a community on the platform.

 

[Husk]

The value is really on the buyer. People can sell things for whatever they want and if people are buying it then... I'm not going to complain. If there's a demand and you're supplying, might as WELL try for the higher price when you can. I might think a price is outrageous but at the end of the day, it doesn't matter what I think. If it has what you want and you have the means to pay for it, by all means.

 

[Arantor]

That really is how it should be. If you don’t think it’s worth the price, don’t buy it, but no need to go off on a huge highly-toxic tirade about it. (Unlike a certain blog I can think of, which has effectively bullied the coder into not sharing any more designs in future.)

 

[Cedric]

That really is how it should be. If you don’t think it’s worth the price, don’t buy it, but no need to go off on a huge highly-toxic tirade about it. (Unlike a certain blog I can think of, which has effectively bullied the coder into not sharing any more designs in future.)

Yep. People are toxic though. They’ll do anything to let another person feel bad by badmouthing them and in return they feel better by doing so themselves. Because they’re miserable piece of shits themselves.

Sad reality.

 

[Arantor]

Yup, people are routinely awful.

 

[Tracy]

Yep. People are toxic though. They’ll do anything to let another person feel bad by badmouthing them and in return they feel better by doing so themselves. Because they’re miserable piece of shits themselves.

Not always... there are valid reasons to complain about certain aspects of software/scripts/styles/etc. Just because someone has chosen to point out warts that they see doesn't equate to their being "awful" and doesn't negate their position.... Sorry... sensitive feelers really have no place in reality. If one can't deal with the heat.. they need to stay away from the fire. And that is (and has been historically) a fact of life. When it comes to software especially.. you aren't going to please everyone. Anyone that thinks they can needs to lay down the meth pipe.

 

[Tracy]

Yup, people are routinely awful.

Welcome to reality. Fantasy land exit was about 2 miles back.
But ironically.. what some consider "awful" others consider being hit with reality. It ultimately depends on your "focal aspect" when dealing with life. Those that live in the unicorn/fantasy world rarely tend to comport well with those that live in the rocks/desert aspect of life.