Cliques within Communities

[Reverie]

This used to often be a thing when we refer to the "Snow Globe" of Zetaboards days. Cliques were formed which is typically influential members forming groups and creates somewhat a divide amongst the community. Where other members don't feel welcome in the discussions happening.

I feel like as forums have gone on communities have become more inclusive and try to be transparent. Do you notice cliques within communities? What could help with this? Are cliques always necessarily a bad thing?

 

[Ravenfreak]

I really haven't seen this happen in a long time. I used to see it more when I first got into forums in the late 00's, especially on Sonic Retro but since we're all much older now we've matured.

 

[ClicketyKat]

I see this happening on forums and I don't think that the members/staff even realize they're doing it. It's good to find your people on a site and want to hang out with them, but too much of that can be off putting for newbies because they feel like a fifth wheel or even an intruder.

Then another thing is when staff gets too close to each other, and that's probably a bad thing when members feel it's an us against them mentality. I saw that happen someplace in the spring and I also saw members stop logging in like they used to. Staff was oblivious to how they were scaring away members and even when it was pointed out to them, they were in denial.

 

[Al]

Are cliques always necessarily a bad thing?

No. You're always going to have a solid nucleus at the centre of a community which drives it forward. That will be, predominantly, the staff with a smattering of regular members. If you think about it, there is (probably) a staff forum where staff chat and members can't see. That's your first clique. Then, maybe, some forums will have a VIP area for premium members. That's the second. You'll also get people who migrate towards certain topics. Forum games, for example, to me they're a complete waste of time and I won't even set foot in them. To others, it's a way to pass the time and they naturally develop and affinity with others who like that type of thing. That's clique three.

It is not always a bad thing. It's entirely normal. Think about your life, your work, school, whatever. There are different groups in real life, it's silly to expect that won't happen any where else where people communicate.

At my site, I don't allow or tolerate any cliques.

You're looking at them as a negative. You have staff? Clique. "a small close-knit group of people who do not readily allow others to join them." Can I join your staff? No!? Clique.

A small close-knit group of people. What's wrong with that? Isn't that what most forums are made from?

 

[Ken]

You're looking at them as a negative. You have staff? Clique. "a small close-knit group of people who do not readily allow others to join them." Can I join your staff? No!? Clique.

A small close-knit group of people. What's wrong with that? Isn't that what most forums are made from?

Not that kind of clique, and besides, you're failing to understand what I said. I have a member of my staff and there is not a single discussion about cliques. Not one. When I say it's a bad thing, it is. What you said to me doesn't make sense.

 

[Al]

(QQ on the dislike, Ken, what's up? Upset that someone doesn't share the same opinion as you? Welcome to the real world.)

you're failing to understand what I said

You said, "At my site, I don't allow or tolerate any cliques." Guess what, I'm fairly decent at comprehending the English language so I'll go ahead and understand well enough that you do not allow cliques; as that's what you said.

You cannot stop them from forming. It's human nature to group with other people that you share an affinity with. It's how society formed. We had mutual interests. Initially that was survival. Now we have other less primal interests.

However, when I visit your forum and see you have made 12000 of the 20000 posts there I have to admit you're right. It's probably not likely for a clique to form ... when you spend 60% of the time talking to yourself.

 

[Al]

This is why I don't sit in conference with those who can't hold a decent discussion.

Is it a conference of one?

Ken, Kenneth, Kenny, Ken-lad. When you come to forums with more than one active member you're going to come across opinions to do not care for. The real trick is either engaging in a debate to prove your point, ignoring that user, or just skipping on past without saying anything. I'll let you choose your route. Either works for me.

 

[~ True Legend ~]

(QQ on the dislike, Ken, what's up? Upset that someone doesn't share the same opinion as you? Welcome to the real world.)

You said, "At my site, I don't allow or tolerate any cliques." Guess what, I'm fairly decent at comprehending the English language so I'll go ahead and understand well enough that you do not allow cliques; as that's what you said.

You cannot stop them from forming. It's human nature to group with other people that you share an affinity with. It's how society formed. We had mutual interests. Initially that was survival. Now we have other less primal interests.

However, when I visit your forum and see you have made 12000 of the 20000 posts there I have to admit you're right. It's probably not likely for a clique to form ... when you spend 60% of the time talking to yourself.

There's a difference between a close knit group of friends and a clique. Cliques aren't welcoming to others or will post in a way with their secret language only members can understand. If they wanna do that they can PM or create a private group chat elsewhere, the forum isn't the place for it.

 

[Arantor]

I have a member of my staff and there is not a single discussion about cliques.

Just because you don't talk about cliques doesn't mean you don't have them. Chances are if you have any number of people that are regulars, you'll have cliques that you don't even notice.

And to a point, that's fine. People have their favourites within any population sample.

 

[~ True Legend ~]

There's a difference between a close knit group of friends and a clique. Cliques aren't welcoming to others or will post in a way with their secret language only members can understand. If they wanna do that they can PM or create a private group chat elsewhere, the forum isn't the place for it.

@Arantor depends on how you define a clique

How to Spot a Clique in Your Child's Life

Cliques can be risky for young people. Learn how to identify a clique, the consequences of cliques, and how to prevent your child from joining one.

www.verywellfamily.com

 

[Al]

Cliques aren't welcoming to others

There is no requirement within the rules of forums which say you must like everybody. It's not necessary to welcome others; that's the job of the forum staff not the forum members.

or will post in a way with their secret language only members can understand.

God forbid there is a language difference(!) Is this an issue for you as well? Them sneaky Russians talking away to each other in a language only they can understand?

If they wanna do that they can PM or create a private group chat elsewhere, the forum isn't the place for it.

Says who? You? If you want to mandate that everyone on your forum likes, talks to, welcomes, appreciates and acknowledges everyone else, it won't work. People are different. Some get on, some don't. Even here, where I am wonderful, someone messaged me to tell me that I am going on their ignore list.

(as an aside, I found that HILARIOUS. Messaging someone to tell them you are going to ignore them? That's really special.)​

That's really up to him. The staff here cannot insist that this person speaks to me, is welcoming, inviting, etc. You cannot insist that we all like each other. Cliques form. Where there are people there are cliques.

 

[~ True Legend ~]

There is no requirement within the rules of forums which say you must like everybody. It's not necessary to welcome others; that's the job of the forum staff not the forum members.


God forbid there is a language difference(!) Is this an issue for you as well? Them sneaky Russians talking away to each other in a language only they can understand?

View attachment 2536



Says who? You? If you want to mandate that everyone on your forum likes, talks to, welcomes, appreciates and acknowledges everyone else, it won't work. People are different. Some get on, some don't. Even here, where I am wonderful, someone messaged me to tell me that I am going on their ignore list.

(as an aside, I found that HILARIOUS. Messaging someone to tell them you are going to ignore them? That's really special.)​

That's really up to him. The staff here cannot insist that this person speaks to me, is welcoming, inviting, etc. You cannot insist that we all like each other. Cliques form. Where there are people there are cliques.

You don’t have to like someone to be inclusive and civil

And don’t get me wrong, I say this as a young person who had an experience of getting banned from a forum for having playful banter with a new buddy I’d made on that forum, and the site owner didn’t like it because it may alienate new members who don’t know me and he considered it disrespectful and he wants to build a community attractive to new members and a welcoming atmosphere where everyone can join in. I believe now it was discourteous of me.

Having said that, I don’t wanna censor members too much.

 

[Cedric]

What some tend to forget is that we are all adults and staff aren’t a daddy day care. People form cliques, people dislike people while liking others. Cliques are inevitable.

Don’t like someone? That’s your right and it’s in our nature. Some want to act civil, some don’t. Respect each other but don’t expect the other to like you. Don’t be oversensitive.

Before anyone feels attacked — this is not directed to anyone.

 

[Al]

I feel attacked.

 

[Al]

What some tend to forget is that we are all adults -

Hold it right there.

We’re not all adults. Some are actual children (others just behave like children). I take it you don’t have an age restriction in place on AJ. I know I don’t. On one forum I joined I set my age to 12 to see if I could still see the p0rno (I could).

It’s a misconception to say that we are all adults. You will have minors on these boards I’m sure. Not many, but some. The issue with this is that you can’t see from these…



…how old someone is.

(As an aside, this is part of the reason why I use my real photo - so people can see I’m a proper grown up)​

So I guess we just assume we are all grown ups, expect minors to behave as adults, but at the same time trying to keep content as PG-13 as possible.

That said, regardless of the age of contributors, we expect everyone to behave in accordance with the guidelines laid down by the staff. There’s no allowances for age or any other characteristic. There are no rules to say I have to like or even respect everyone on these boards. There’s some I find to be buffoons. There’s others I find to be odious. I just choose not the engage with them. I choose not to communicate with those people but I do choose to communicate with others. Is that a clique? I’m close to some. We share private jokes. We engage outside of these boards. Is that not acceptable?

As long as I obey the rules it’s all good, right?

 

[Arantor]

Playing devil's avocado for a moment, the odds that someone is here under the age of 13 is a little unlikely; the material is just a bit dry for anyone to engage with it. And as everyone knows, no-one under 40 knows what a forum even is

The usual rule comes back to 'as long as everyone is adhering to the rules, there isn't a problem', which is usually true - but the underlying problem of cliques isn't going to go away no matter what happens. People form little groups, whether intentionally or not and there's never shortage of people with beef. Heck, I've certainly had people that I'd consider borderline nemeses in my forum time!

All of this is fine as long as it doesn't discourage people or discussion.

The RP scene in particular has no shortage of *actual* cliques, and ones that would make your hair stand on end if you only knew how deeply it ran - because they don't just have cliques, they have (multiple) blogs whose sole purpose is to stir the pot and not-quite-name-names. Except when they name names.

 

[Al]

Playing devil's avocado for a moment, the odds that someone is here under the age of 13 is a little unlikely; the material is just a bit dry for anyone to engage with it. And as everyone knows, no-one under 40 knows what a forum even is

Hence: Some are actual children (others just behave like children).

In most places, under 18 you’re considered a child. My 16 year old is a forum member - not here.

But you’re right. It’s unlikely there are many children - if any - on AJ.

I think we’re in agreement, @Arantor, cliques exist and they’re not necessarily a “bad thing”. I like you. I’m going to slide into your DMs and we can form our own clique.

 

[~ True Legend ~]

Hence: Some are actual children (others just behave like children).

In most places, under 18 you’re considered a child. My 16 year old is a forum member - not here.

But you’re right. It’s unlikely there are many children - if any - on AJ.

I think we’re in agreement, @Arantor, cliques exist and they’re not necessarily a “bad thing”. I like you. I’m going to slide into your DMs and we can form our own clique.

Let’s not forget that @Cedric V is your homeboy though

 

[Kale]

I remember when people used to use that term 'snow globe'. Totally felt like ZetaBoards did have a clique mentality back then, and it is why I just couldn't be bothered with involving myself back then. Anyway, yeah, I've noticed it before. It's a shame when it happens. It used to really bother me, but after while I just leave.

 

[Empire]

They absolutely exist, especially with niche interests.

As a teenager, I was interested in a music scene that I found cliquey, and the people involved weren’t keen on outsiders, I was friends with a guy who was part of an online community associated with it, and they were all mates in real life and had “gatherings” where you weren’t allowed to bring anyone who wasn’t part of that community. A few of them were friendly, but others were pretty rude and standoffish. Going to gigs could sometimes feel like being at a party where you didn’t know anyone, and like you were an interloper and shouldn’t be there, and it ruined it for me.