1984 - The Movie and Book (Spoiler)

[Jason]

It's a darling of people on certain political spectrums and it's a pet book of those into conspiracy theories but, myself, I haven't read the book, only watched the movie. Anyway, I sympathize with what is going on. Basically, it's about too much control into one's personal space. It's basically the same theme as the book and movie One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. I mean, when will the personal intrusion end as this mockery of Stalinism showcases?

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Opposition to the Book​

Critics of the book might point out that everwhere is like 1984. I mean, everywhere you go you're being indoctrinated. Who are we kidding here? Is indoctrination even bad? Maybe it's really a question of who is brainwashing you.

Where to Find a Comical Version of it Now​

No doubt, the current society in North Korea fits the bill.

 

[Arantor]

I mean, when will the personal intrusion end as this mockery of Stalinism showcases?

Oh dear.

First up, it should be noted that the book Nineteen-Eighty-Four was written in the latter years of Stalin's time - he was still alive when it was written - but it's hardly a mockery of Stalinism, and if you think it is a mockery, I suggest you actually educate yourself on what the book has to say. Or indeed, the legacy of Stalin.

The message, when it was written in 1948, was into government oversight. How far a government should go in observing its people, controlling them through controlling their media. The book is not shy about the notion of utter revisionism; events that didn't happen, or rewritten to happen in a different way. Then of course, the Two Minute Hate daily, reinforcing the notion of a boogeyman that everyone should hate and fear - but who doesn't even exist.

O'Brien's message to Winston, effectively, is that the government will tell you what to think, and failure to adhere is a capital crime. The ideal playbook for a deeply fascist government. The notion that you can be convinced with sufficient inducement to believe something that you know not to be true, that 2 + 2 = 5.

It's also a pointed lesson on how detailed the government's oversight can be; that they know the deepest fears of any individual. This is, unfortunately, quite prescient, as the border in Germany would later go on to show, with the Stasi acting very much in lieu of how O'Brien does; making sure that the vulgarity and the decadence of the West does not infiltrate and pollute the East.

The whole thing, start to end, is a clear warning on the nature of totalitarianism, at a time when this was very much the lived reality for millions of people. During Stalin's time, over 770,000 people were executed for 'political crimes'. The very sort of thing Winston himself commits.

Of course, in recent times, we handed this all in its entirety to private enterprise (about the most American/capitalist thing possible) to catalogue our lives, in a mildly ironic nod to Aldous Huxley and "Brave New World".

 

[Jason]

It's interesting to note that a strong following of biblical teachings is based on mind-control, but I'm not dissing any Christians by saying this. It's just the most effective way to follow Jesus' teachings.

For example, you're told to renew your mind and worship God with all your mind, heart, and soul - and unless you're really in love with that life, you're not going to do it. The whole thing with 1984 is it's written from the POV of people who are not in love with that system and also some of the main characters have doubts.

 

[Arantor]

strong following of biblical teachings is based on mind-control

There is a reason it is cynically referred to as 'an opiate for the masses'

The whole thing with 1984 is it's written from the POV of people who are not in love with that system and are watching from an outside perspective and also some of the main characters have doubts.

I guess you could put it that way, yes. The system tortures and kills them for it, though.

 

[Jason]

There is a reason it is cynically referred to as 'an opiate for the masses'

But what's the alternative?

 

[Arantor]

Good deflection there. My criticising a system does not mean I have an answer for fixing it.

I can instead sit, advise, comment, critique, do all the things a free thinker should be able to do, not answerable to a fascistic or totalitarian government who would direct what the correct line of answer would be.

And any body that shouts down such things obviously has a reason to. Totalitarian governments fear the uprising against them, so do cult leaders. And for the same reason. Curiously enough, so too do religious leaders often fear such an uprising.

I'm not saying religions are cults, though. They just happen to have a few overlapping characteristics.

 

[Jason]

Good deflection there. My criticising a system does not mean I have an answer for fixing it.

I can instead sit, advise, comment, critique, do all the things a free thinker should be able to do, not answerable to a fascistic or totalitarian government who would direct what the correct line of answer would be.

And any body that shouts down such things obviously has a reason to. Totalitarian governments fear the uprising against them, so do cult leaders. And for the same reason. Curiously enough, so too do religious leaders often fear such an uprising.

I'm not saying religions are cults, though. They just happen to have a few overlapping characteristics.

I've got my own doubts about fundamentalist Christianity. I feel like some churches think they know it all and punish thought crimes, but not trying to get off-topic here.

 

[Al]

There is a reason it is cynically referred to as 'an opiate for the masses'

That was Marx, wasn’t it? I vaguely recall studying sociology in college.

I have nothing good to say about organised religion. I used to say, I’m an atheist so I don’t believe in god. The explanation proved irrelevant. Now it’s simply, there is no god.

Because that’s the secular truth.

As for 1984, so as not to derail the OPs thread, the movie is tosh. The book is meh. Interesting themes of totalitarianism, surveillance, and the manipulation of truth, but I thought was pretty boring.

 

[Jason]

The way I look at it is if you're not in jail/prison, then you don't need overkill privacy abuse.

 

[Arantor]

The way I look at it is if you're not in jail/prison, then you don't need overkill privacy abuse.

Oh my.

Privacy abuse is one of the simplest forms of control to enact, though. Wishing it away doesn’t make it go away, whether it’s an abusive partner gaslighting and breaking down another person, or an abusive workplace or a full on abusive society.

The whole point of the book is to educate you on what to look for, to prevent it. It doesn’t matter whether you think you need it, I guarantee others will use it against you unless you are prepared and paying attention.

 

[NeoMetallix]

Of course, in recent times, we handed this all in its entirety to private enterprise (about the most American/capitalist thing possible) to catalogue our lives, in a mildly ironic nod to Aldous Huxley and "Brave New World".

It should be noted that they aren't private if they are working with the government by will or by threat. Edward Snowden showed many companies including Apple were willingly participating in the NSAs Prism program.

Also there is no real capitalism left in this world. There is no free market when government has the power to grant monopolies to whom it pleases or when currency can be created out of thin air. MANY of these big powerhouse companies like Microsoft, Google, and Facebook got help with government funding, grants, or regulations that stifle startups(a form of choosing who wins in the market).

 

[Jason]

Our society being into privacy invasion isn't new. In fact, the CIA has toppled several heads of state and probably they did JFK and RFK also.