Who uses it or has used it? Who has considered it? One positive about it is the fact themes and mods and forum upgrades are one click, like WordPress.
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Simple Machines - SMF
- Thread starter Jason
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I use it as a simple place holder on one of my old domains that I don't want to bring IPS back up on (mainly because of the question on the lack of future self-hosted script support).
As an aside... the developers are still apparently stuck in the
"Rots of Ruck" getting any assistance with anything else.
The developers are rather
The sad thing is.. .you do a search via
It simply re-emphasizes the point of "you get what you pay for".
As an aside... the developers are still apparently stuck in the
Apache.htaccess rules era... many of the functions of SMF fail when used with something like nginx... and as Scooby says
"Rots of Ruck" getting any assistance with anything else.
The developers are rather
.htaccess concentric.... yet one more issue with "free scripts".The sad thing is.. .you do a search via
Google for smf nginx friendly urls 2.1 and of 92,000 search returns.. you get a WHOLE 2 results. And the REALLY sad fact is... that the posts that contain any "pertinent" data are over a decade old.It simply re-emphasizes the point of "you get what you pay for".
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I used it. Heck, I’m in the credits for it as a developer.
Tracy almost has a point. Almost. There are literal millions of SMF installs, and millions of them are on Apache (we had analytics for this). As for friendly URLs, SMF doesn’t have it out of the box, it really doesn’t. The option Tracy thinks is this doesn’t put slugs in the URL, never has, never will, it just replaces index.php?topic=1.0 with index.php/topic,1.0.html which relies on some nifty configuration even in nginx to actually work properly (and since virtually no one in the ecosystem uses nginx, support is limited). Virtually everyone in the SMF ecosystem is on shared hosting, the (small) crowd that isn’t long since either figured out how to use that one option with their setup, or more likely did without.
But it’s also a big ask to support nginx for this because you’re making a huge presumption that people running nginx have access to the configuration file, which just isn’t true. But you never want to acknowledge such details because they don’t apply to *you* therefore they don’t exist to anyone (no matter how disparate that reality is). It’s also not true that “many” of the functions fail, given that I developed on it using Docker and nginx with no code changes - but it was just the “friendly” URLs that didn’t work.
Would I use SMF again? Nah. I contributed 75,000 posts to their support community, tens of thousands of lines of code to the core, hundreds of adons (including the help desk their community site uses and a full media gallery) and I’d not go back. It’s increasingly clear they’re not interested in listening to the users or indeed anyone who might have a clue. I asked them for a roadmap - since, you know, I could contribute ready-to-go features if I knew they were on the roadmap. After a year of asking and eventually being told that I, as an outsider that hasn’t been on the team since 2014, am holding the project back with my ego, I left them to it. Though it’s clear their roadmap is getting 2.1 to a release state that justifies the name, it’s just such a buggy release and the roadmap for the next year at least looks to be bug fixes only.
As for “the pertinent posts are over a decade old”, well, yes, SMF 2.0.0 came out 12 years ago and has only had maintenance/security fixes since, therefore most of the advice doesn’t *need* to change. But, of course, inconvenient truth for Tracy making an argument. 2.1 isn’t *that* wildly different for a lot of things.
Tracy almost has a point. Almost. There are literal millions of SMF installs, and millions of them are on Apache (we had analytics for this). As for friendly URLs, SMF doesn’t have it out of the box, it really doesn’t. The option Tracy thinks is this doesn’t put slugs in the URL, never has, never will, it just replaces index.php?topic=1.0 with index.php/topic,1.0.html which relies on some nifty configuration even in nginx to actually work properly (and since virtually no one in the ecosystem uses nginx, support is limited). Virtually everyone in the SMF ecosystem is on shared hosting, the (small) crowd that isn’t long since either figured out how to use that one option with their setup, or more likely did without.
But it’s also a big ask to support nginx for this because you’re making a huge presumption that people running nginx have access to the configuration file, which just isn’t true. But you never want to acknowledge such details because they don’t apply to *you* therefore they don’t exist to anyone (no matter how disparate that reality is). It’s also not true that “many” of the functions fail, given that I developed on it using Docker and nginx with no code changes - but it was just the “friendly” URLs that didn’t work.
Would I use SMF again? Nah. I contributed 75,000 posts to their support community, tens of thousands of lines of code to the core, hundreds of adons (including the help desk their community site uses and a full media gallery) and I’d not go back. It’s increasingly clear they’re not interested in listening to the users or indeed anyone who might have a clue. I asked them for a roadmap - since, you know, I could contribute ready-to-go features if I knew they were on the roadmap. After a year of asking and eventually being told that I, as an outsider that hasn’t been on the team since 2014, am holding the project back with my ego, I left them to it. Though it’s clear their roadmap is getting 2.1 to a release state that justifies the name, it’s just such a buggy release and the roadmap for the next year at least looks to be bug fixes only.
As for “the pertinent posts are over a decade old”, well, yes, SMF 2.0.0 came out 12 years ago and has only had maintenance/security fixes since, therefore most of the advice doesn’t *need* to change. But, of course, inconvenient truth for Tracy making an argument. 2.1 isn’t *that* wildly different for a lot of things.
SMF does not come with pretty url rewriting by default.
I do have a mod call Pretty Urls which does. Have just updated it to generate Nginx rules based on your post here. People have done it in the past and posted in the support topic. Myself have only used Nginx a handful of times.
Version 4.0
+Added an area to generate/view Nginx rules if you are using the Nginx webserver.
In general, though you get what you pay for. Companies that charge for a product in my opinion tend to update more frequently since it is part of the business modal.
I do have a mod call Pretty Urls which does. Have just updated it to generate Nginx rules based on your post here. People have done it in the past and posted in the support topic. Myself have only used Nginx a handful of times.
Pretty URLs for SMF
SMF URL management. Rewrite your forum's URLs, to make them people friendly and SEO
custom.simplemachines.org
+Added an area to generate/view Nginx rules if you are using the Nginx webserver.
In general, though you get what you pay for. Companies that charge for a product in my opinion tend to update more frequently since it is part of the business modal.
Yeah....it really requires (for WordPress, XF and IPS) a "really hard" "try files" rule to use.
try_files $uri $uri/ /xf/index.php?$uri&$args; or a base similarity to that. Of course, it does take the requirement to plan ahead for that ability in the core code - which apparently the SMF developers never cold figure out/agree on?And most people refer to the same thing when they use the term
friendly urls... not some slang SMF rebranding of a commonly accepted term. 😲The "inconvenient truth" is apparently folks that can't afford decent hosting or run very large sites use it primarily on shared hosting. The POINT was, it apparently is rarely used by anyone with nginx... therefore, lots of luck with finding any support for that configuration.
It's one of the reasons I like trying different scripts... it allows one to make comparisons... and SMF has (even in it's current version) glaring weaknesses when compared to paid scripts... but it does "lead" the top "old 3" of myBB, phpBB and SMF.
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I have explained to you how more than twice that this option does not do what you think it does. It never did what you seem to think it does, and is a relic from an era when search engines couldn’t figure out when URLs were duplicates or not based on ? parameters in the URL. Because back in 2004, that was what search engine friendly URLs meant, and all of the forum platforms had URL parameters that didn’t include slugs for topics (even the mighty vB had this as an addon only)
And as a result, it’s not based on try_files because it’s literally not doing that. You know, like I just told you, again.
And as a result, it’s not based on try_files because it’s literally not doing that. You know, like I just told you, again.
You were rather fond of asserting that this is how it should always be, though, that if one wants nice things, one has to pay for them.
Are you having issues with understanding what FURL's
ARE commonly accepted as?Here, let me give you an accepted CURRENT definition of what FURL's are
Guess what... we aren't IN early 2004 now... it's almost 2 decades later. The year 2023 is well over 1/2 way pass.
No, if one wants steak.. one pays for steak.. if one wants refried beans, then one gets a can of refried beans to heat up.
FURL's are not "nice things"... it's core web presence now.
But I realize that many that develop for those scripts are somewhat lackadaisical in trying to get them into at least the current decade. 🤭
I am well aware of what is expected in this day and age. I proposed a full decade ago to bring pretty URLs in the common parlance into core. I was vetoed. I started retrofitting it (properly, not as an addon) into StoryBB which is based on SMF, but I realised the target user base didn’t care. (They have very different requirements.)
In 2013 when I added likes, I actually pitched reactions. That was before XF had it, before IPS had it, before Facebook had it, though some sites did. I was vetoed because “no one will use it”.
I have proposed *many* things in more recent times. I was still vetoed. Even changing the language string “child boards” to “sub-boards” in 2.1 was a multi page debate. If you bother to look in the Chit Chat board on their site, you can find a list of 150 things I think should be on the roadmap, of which 90 or so I have code for. The team that asserts there is a roadmap (but hasn’t managed to release it in a year, not even to former team members) couldn’t be bothered to tell me if anything I was willing to share (that was already done) was on the roadmap.
Now do you understand why I don't develop for them any more? (To the point my account is pending deletion on simplemachines.org)
I repeat: SMF’s failures to stay relevant are purely ideological. They don’t want pretty URLs in the core. They don’t want topic prefixes in the core. So many other things they don’t want in core. They view them as “not a *real* forum’s needs”. Then they wonder why people aren’t excited about using their software.
And it is people like you that reinforce this by shutting down any discussion to change the status quo.
In 2013 when I added likes, I actually pitched reactions. That was before XF had it, before IPS had it, before Facebook had it, though some sites did. I was vetoed because “no one will use it”.
I have proposed *many* things in more recent times. I was still vetoed. Even changing the language string “child boards” to “sub-boards” in 2.1 was a multi page debate. If you bother to look in the Chit Chat board on their site, you can find a list of 150 things I think should be on the roadmap, of which 90 or so I have code for. The team that asserts there is a roadmap (but hasn’t managed to release it in a year, not even to former team members) couldn’t be bothered to tell me if anything I was willing to share (that was already done) was on the roadmap.
Now do you understand why I don't develop for them any more? (To the point my account is pending deletion on simplemachines.org)
I repeat: SMF’s failures to stay relevant are purely ideological. They don’t want pretty URLs in the core. They don’t want topic prefixes in the core. So many other things they don’t want in core. They view them as “not a *real* forum’s needs”. Then they wonder why people aren’t excited about using their software.
And it is people like you that reinforce this by shutting down any discussion to change the status quo.
And there you point out the glaring weakness with those "open source" scripts.
And now do you understand my position about the issues with depending on all that "free labor"? It's transient, and it's left up to popularity contests amongst egos.
And once more... you simply prove the very fact that I was talking about. If they were not "real forum needs" there would not be add-ons created to offer those "not real forum needs".
That’s just it, though, all I prove is that *they* don’t understand. I certainly haven’t proven anything about the apparently capricious nature of open source.
Projects disappear all the time, even paid ones. True, projects where the developer’s livelihood is intertwined with their success might do better, but that’s in no way a given, seeing that typically 20% of new businesses fail in the first two years, 45% in the first five. And with that in mind, if the developer goes under in that time, your *only* choice becomes migration to another platform unless you can maintain it yourself. Open source doesn’t have that gotcha because even if you can’t maintain it *yourself* it’s possible to find people who can.
There are well run F/OSS projects that don’t have the drama. But these are projects based around an individual or small team with a shared cohesive vision, making decisions for the project and rarely does ego come into it. SMF is not one of these projects. I might speculate that neither are phpBB or MyBB at this time though I suspect their reasoning and situations are different.
Projects disappear all the time, even paid ones. True, projects where the developer’s livelihood is intertwined with their success might do better, but that’s in no way a given, seeing that typically 20% of new businesses fail in the first two years, 45% in the first five. And with that in mind, if the developer goes under in that time, your *only* choice becomes migration to another platform unless you can maintain it yourself. Open source doesn’t have that gotcha because even if you can’t maintain it *yourself* it’s possible to find people who can.
There are well run F/OSS projects that don’t have the drama. But these are projects based around an individual or small team with a shared cohesive vision, making decisions for the project and rarely does ego come into it. SMF is not one of these projects. I might speculate that neither are phpBB or MyBB at this time though I suspect their reasoning and situations are different.
I wish everything was free, but they won't make food, utilities, and rent free. 😏. Anyone get it?
In a utopian world... nobody would have to pay for anything and everyone could do whatever they want... but that land exists only in fantasy currently.
That's an issue that some in society suffer from... they "want/expect" the utopia but have issues with dealing with the reality.
SMF is a solid free forum software. It has pros and cons like anything else.
Pros:
Simple to learn how to use for both the Admin and Users.
Easy theme and mod installation
Theme and ModDB are a decent size and growing.
A solid community behind it.
Tons of support in various different languages.
Cons:
Slower development than others.
Some features that some would consider to be "core requirements" are mods or don't exist.
The default theme does look a bit dated from both a user and admin standpoint.
At this current time, SMF is doing pretty good compared to the past few years. There is much more to be done for the future though
.
The reasons I like SMF: the license, the coding style. I am not fan of OOP. I can handle MyBB's mixture of OOP. But Xenforo feels like a maze for me codewise and I did try to make a few plugins for xenforo but ended up abandoning them.
How many SMF threads do we have on here now? :V I feel like I've responded to two at least over the past couple of days. Anyways Simple Machines is my favorite free forum software. I've used it numerous times, and even used Createaforum too btw @vbgamer45. I like the look and feel of the ACP, the default theme is sleek and it's mobile friendly out of the box too. Most software is these days but still.
I'd like to switch things up a little bit and ask about your favorite feature. For me, it is the unread posts section. Kinda astonished that xenforo, which is supposed to be the golden standard of fora today, doesn't exactly have anything quite like it.
It’s rather limited. With a bunch of add ons, you’re able to extend it a little, but I’m hoping there will be a major improvement when 2.3 comes out.
I’m more baffled that ignore-boards isn’t a default feature in XF to be honest. Being able to say “I don’t care about this” is *vital* for a busy forum.
I think I’d probably go with that being my favourite feature actually - being able to do something to curate my experience. Collapsing categories is nice too for a similar reason.
Thanks, I hate it. So far, that makes for three things about XF that I don't like: the editor that disables the entire toolbar in source view, the limited new posts feature that frequently does not bring me to the first unread post, and now not being able to ignore certain sub-boards.
What‘s New always gets me to first unread? No issues there that I can see.
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