Getting Gen Z interested in forums

[MisterBobbyPin]

So I am a Gen Z'er and I've noticed that my generation doesn't care about forums. Do you think that there are ways to get Gen Z interested in forums? I think if they were more simple and video-focused they would be more interested.

 

[Cedric]

It’s a different generation, they’ve grown up with a decline of forums and rise of social media. They are not interested in long term development, community building or long discussions. They are used to looking and videos, scrolling to the next thing in 2 seconds. So it’s really hard to get their attention as their attention span is averagely 2 seconds.

Do we need to adapt forums to them? Yes and no.

Yes as in they are the future, to keep forums online in long term. But how do we adapt our forums? That’s the “1 million dollar” question. Developers have been busy trying to make everything more appealing but it doesn’t happen overnight, it doesn’t change as frequent as it should. It’s trial and error continuously. But maybe more error sadly.

No as in Social Media and forums can co-exist. They both have different types of people and that’s okay. But maybe if you consider it at long distant term, forums will come to an end. It’s our duty however to keep that in a long distance. As long as we have people that are interested in forums, then they won’t come to an end abruptly soon.

 

[Arantor]

Problem 1: Gen Z was born in or around 1995; by the time they hit teenage, social media was everywhere and the culture of immediate gratification was upon. That's the immediate culture war - a generation was shaped amid the notion that they can go somewhere, and engage quickly on a given subject. E.g. Facebook Groups, there is no shortage of groups on a given subject and by sheer virtue of numbers, you can have an instant feedback loop very quickly.

Problem 2: The amplification of now: the social platforms don't care about history, and by and large neither do people. Most forum content is really not that interesting much beyond the now, especially if the conversation is task-based (i.e. asking a question to get an answer), unless the task is one others will struggle with. In short: the actual forum content is not conducive in most cases to actually being discoverable or useful later. We need to consider more meaningful ways of distilling and archiving that which is useful from that which is transient. This isn't a Gen Z specific problem, but in the Gen Z mindset specifically, they've been encouraged not to search so hard when they can just ask and be rewarded. (The only people who ask 'have you searched first' inevitably are the old-timers who remember a life before the instant-always, always-now life.)

Problem 3: The fact forums kinda suck on mobile. Yes, you can make a forum browsable on mobile. But getting content into a forum on mobile still sucks, doubly so if the content is anything other than words. I can't imagine typing this very post on mobile, I can barely imagine typing it on an iPad with a reasonably sized keyboard. And today's generation in particular will be very enthusiastic about posting images and videos rather than words because in many cases that's actually more cogent for whatever their situation is. Though I'll posit I'd far rather read an hour's worth of reading over a 3 hour video essay in any universe.


I posit that none of the current forum vendors are actively trying to tackle any of these problems to any serious degree. I'm not sure they want to.

Problem 1 is a fundamental paradigm shift, you're never going to get that on a forum and I don't think that should ever be a goal; synchronous or near-synchronous communication is not a pre-requisite for knowledge sharing, and while it has a place for some things (bouncing ideas around on Discord for example where you want rapid discussion and iteration), for some things it's absolutely the worst possible interface. Some conversations just require time to go away and formulate an answer, especially if that is solving a problem.

Problem 2 is one that is being quietly tackled. Discourse and IPS have had a go, I don't feel like either have *solved* this yet, but they're at least thinking about the problem using whatever quantative data they can muster on the problem. I suspect AI might play a part in this in the future.

Problem 3 is one that the forum vendors need to solve, but so far they're not particularly interested in doing so. In the case of the likes of IPS, where they're building forums attached to existing properties (for the most part) where there's an existing audience especially if corporate-adjacent or creator-adjacent, these are users who won't necessarily be mobile-first so the problems of the format are conveniently ignorable. But for anyone else? Buckle up and get building. Inserting an image into a post should be *much* closer to how it is on Facebook than it is in the average forum experience.

 

[Tracy]

Inserting an image into a post should be *much* closer to how it is on Facebook than it is in the average forum experience.

Don't know how it is on other sites... but I just went to mine, went into a new post and to insert an image clicked the image BBCode icon from the menu bar, clicked on the Drop Image/Or Click Here option and it gave me a choice of Photo Library, Take Photo, Choose file. Don't think that's a LOT different than it is in the FB app.
The ONLY difference is on FB app, you really only have ONE place to put the photo - either your timeline/feed or in a group (which you have to change to to post it there, so not much different than going into a particular thread and doing similar), so they can give you a media icon that directly links to your phone photo gallery.
The biggest issue with most cases of uploading images to a forum (or an associated media gallery) is you are going to have to go to where that image should be placed OR the script will have to be configured to prompt you on where to place it as it's in the process of setting you up to upload it. That in itself is not a limitation in the fact that it's a forum, it's a limitation based upon the simple fact the image can be placed in a multitude of places in a structured format (unlike most social media apps), and sites can't determine that magically.
So to me this is not going to be an "easy fix" as you have two totally different environments you are dealing with, so unless you dump everything into one massive thread/feed (good luck on chasing through the chaff) comparing the two is not really valid. Even FB somewhat does that with their use of groups. To me, those aren't any different than having "nodes" on a forum related to topics.
The ONLY big difference is the ability to have a singular app for accessing it. And that function won't work well for most forums... as the add-ons in use here are not the add-ons in use on my site. I'd really HATE to be the developer that tried to code a tablet/phone app that allowed every add-on to work the same on it as it does a desktop/laptop/web interface.

The biggest issue with a large portion of society today (and it's not limited to the younger sect) is they've become consumers of information and rarely are generators of knowledge/data.

 

[DigNap15]

Should we change forums to attract gen Z.
No!
Or at least not much
A forum is a forum
There are hundreds of social medias, we don't need to be another one.
And stop worrying about video.
A fourm is basically for disscusion

Members are not really allowed to post a video on my ofurm unless they comment on it as well, and give a time stamp if its a long one

 

[Tracy]

A fourm is basically for disscusion

I beg to disagree.. in my niche, it's WELL more than that. Feel free to swing by as a guest to simply see what all can be involved in it. Site is in the sig line.
Does it have tons of members? Nope...
Does it have tons of members posts? Nope...
Does it have content that ranks high in Google... Yep.
The biggest issue with the niche is the cost of entry.. and honest to God... I doubt if many Gen Z members can afford to get into it at the mid/advanced level.

 

[DigNap15]

Talk about Gen Z!
My daugther, is nearly 40, and has a good job.
The other day, we were talking about China, and she had no idea what Communism was
My other daughter, with her own business, a few years old, did not know what NATO was.

 

[Tracy]

My daugther, is nearly 40, and has a good job.

Errr... she's not Gen Z.. that's around 11-26 years old.
She sounds more like a Millenial (they are 27-42). And honestly... (and I DON'T mean to be mean) but it seems that Gen Z in many ways are MORE intelligent than many Millenials.

The other day, we were talking about China, and she had no idea what Communism was
My other daughter, with her own business, a few years old, did not know what NATO was.

The joys of our education system...

 

[DigNap15]

We all know its easier to use a fourm on a desktop or laptop.
I wonder if as people get older, they buy a laptop to use, rather than just their mobile?

 

[Tracy]

I wonder if as people get older, they buy a laptop to use, rather than just their mobile?

Not necessarily... I'm not yet 60 and I RARELY use a mobile device... I've grown up with desktops/laptops. I don't even use tablets (except to control my astronomy equipment).
My spouse who is a few years older does almost everything on her cell phone and I frequently have to "jump her butt" about doing some things on the phone that should actually be done on the desktop because of the user interface... it's ended up with a few "extra" things delivered to the house, and a couple of times an car payment being made (specifically when she changed to a new bank/checking account).

 

[Arantor]

I think there's a lot more going on than simplistic age range. There's also income distribution factors at work, plus culture in different countries to consider.

I think we can all agree that in younger demographics, phone use is everywhere. It's their lifeline to their social circles - their friends, their colleagues, their social groups. And their first reaction is to think of it as such in terms of getting answers, or general task-based approaches to things. They've been successfully taught over the last decade-plus that all answers can be found at the other end of the mobile, whether it's a video tutorial or a Google search away. And for many of them, a laptop is somewhere between a luxury and a convenience factor depending on what they're doing. They're used to the shoddy interfaces - we've taught them as an industry that this is *normal* and therefore acceptable. For a good number of them, phones are a thing that have been around sufficiently long that they are to all practical intents ubiquitous.

In the middling demographics - especially the upper end of millennials (such as myself at nearly 40) - we weren't all digital first, and mobile phones were only just coming into being affordable in my late teens; I didn't have a mobile phone until I was 19, and then it was a Nokia 3330 whose most used feature was Snake. It baffles my work colleagues who are in the 25-31 age range because in some cases they simply can't conceive of a world where these things weren't always everywhere. For these people, laptops are more likely the goto form factor because phones will be often (but not always) perceived as more fiddly alternatives to more conventional computers which chances are they will have grown up with some variant of - it's been normalised for them.

The first observation I think I have - and I think I'm right in saying (and I'm *sure* Tracy will correct me if I'm not 🤣 ) is that the older demographic prefer bigger devices. Laptops/desktops are easier to work with than a phone, because you're fighting less with things like fine motor control and small form factor and there's every chance that they've had exposure to it at some point, so it wins on both accessibility and familiarity points. Also, a cheap laptop is cheaper than a good phone.

Fun fact: the Commodore Amiga that I got for Christmas in 1990 came with a disk called 'The Very First' which you were expected to use as the very first thing you booted, which would guide you through how to use a mouse because such things were still not as ubiquitous as they would become. Which I suspect also plays something into the demographics around when things became more obvious/useful/usable.


With that in mind, how *do* we get Gen Z interested?

The answer is, ironically, what it has always been: give them something they actually want.

Let's think about that for a minute. I'm firmly in the millennial camp, I remember search engines being awful and getting better, I remember YouTube coming into existence. This no doubt shapes my expectations of what the technology will do and what it can offer. It also shapes my general feeling towards big social networks, because I am from the era of the old-school forum (not quite BBSes though) era, where we could post and discuss things and the time delay in getting an answer was normal - but we were just evolving out of writing letters with a multi-day lag so... improvement.

Meanwhile Gen Z has been fed a steady diet of instant gratification - the always-on hyper-connected world we live in now is theirs, they are the product of it, they are what we have made. I find it difficult to *blame* them for the product of our collective genius. And if you get hooked on it even later in life, it's surprisingly hard to get disentangled again. That dopamine addiction train is absolutely real and I know people that thrive on the bigger numbers and the eNgAgEmEnT.

I think the key to engaging Gen Z starts with having authoritative content - same as it always has, really - around which they can even discover your community exists. If your community is about subjects they don't care about - politics is always a hard sell to youth, especially disaffected youth (unless you can sell it to them as a route for getting involved in promoting change) - you're always going to have difficult engaging them no matter what you do.

Once you have that content, the next step is about building a user experience that actually works. whitetigergrowl for all his staunch cheerfulness has a point: the forum format hasn't changed in 20 years. Now, on some basic level this is *right* because form follows function, but it doesn't help people who have different expectations around how to discover content, especially if their model is fundamentally asking questions in response to content. It's not enough to pique their interest as we might have been back in the day, there are too many competing interests for their time and attention.

So we need to think about how to package up that content in an approachable way for both the new and the old generations. There are lessons we can learn from software that isn't 20 years old here, while applying a bit of creative engineering of our own.

Which begs probably the most important step - we have theories, lots of speculation. Have we gone and actually spoken to any Gen Z people to ask them what they're looking for and where they'd go? And have we done so in a way that doesn't frontload our intent (i.e. no dropping the term forum and getting a glassy-eyed stare)?

 

[Tracy]

They've been successfully taught over the last decade-plus that all answers can be found at the other end of the mobile, whether it's a video tutorial or a Google search away.

Something that I've found that is rather funny... try actually CALLING them on the phone... they tend not to answer. They would rather deal with contact via text or social media!
I thought it was just our kids... but talking to several other parents..... they have the same issue. Their kids let it go to voicemail, then check the voicemail then TEXT back!

The first observation I think I have - and I think I'm right in saying (and I'm *sure* Tracy will correct me if I'm not 🤣 ) is that the older demographic prefer bigger devices.

actually no... my phone is a simple iPhone Pro (not chosen because of size but because of specs as I do almost NO browsing/social media on it).
My main "laptop" is a simple (but not cheap at the time of purchase, but it was "work related") Surface Book 2.
My secondary laptop is an old HP Mini 311 running Linux.
I also have a Toshiba laptop (15") running Windows 10 Home for captures.
My desktop is a Mac Mini (2012 era) with a 28" display.

Meanwhile Gen Z has been fed a steady diet of instant gratification

It's just not Gen Z that's gotten that... many Millennials were exposed to a lot of what Gen Z has been.... but they can actually remember a time back when much of it was NOT a significant presence.

but it doesn't help people who have different expectations around how to discover content, especially if their model is fundamentally asking questions in response to content

And now we are at the "chicken/egg" point. The issue is that MUCH of the younger society can't "take the time" to filter through some content that may be lengthy. They wan't it fed to them in short (but not necessarily concise or precise) statements. If they actually have to think about it, they have issues. It's almost like they lack the ability at times to have cognizant thought processes that can continue the process to a logical conclusion. They have to be TOLD what the end result is/should be.
I personally have seen this several times when helping at a local clinic and explaining the work process flow. Older employees seem to have minimal issues... the younger ones need to be told step by step.

And have we done so in a way that doesn't frontload our intent (i.e. no dropping the term forum and getting a glassy-eyed stare)?

I really don't think what you called it matters.. if it took cognizant and lengthy thought processes and entry of associated thoughts/data... you will get much of a reply from them.
The simple sad fact is... the majority of society are simply consumers... the actual generators of thoughtful and active intelligent processes are few and far between.
Classic case is my niche... much of Gen Z would simply want to know how to point their cell phone at the sky and take a "fantastic picture of a galaxy". Once you talk about the actual requirements... the glassy eyes kick in.

 

[Arantor]

try actually CALLING them on the phone... they tend not to answer. They would rather deal with contact via text or social media!

Me too. My parents too. Calling implies your requirement to contact them is higher than their need to respond. Putting it into a messenger service means they'll respond to it when it's convenient to them, not when it happens to be convenient to you. I think that might be a personal boundaries thing though - if it's someone they know and they have reason to suspect it'll be urgent, they do pick up.

if it took cognizant and lengthy thought processes and entry of associated thoughts/data... you will get much of a reply from them.

My experience is that this is absolutely not age or generation related. It is more related in my experience to the fact that what interests these people is not the same as what interests you or me, and that we all have different relative priorities in this.

Similarly if you're going to raise the argument that the whole 'Gen Z don't wanna work no more' as a related argument about their lack of engagement, there's samples of that going back a full century in the newspapers with near enough the same descriptions and taglines, only the actual names have changed. Gen Z won't take being exploited any more is the difference; there's a different set of social priorities and needs involved - and they're more in tune with themselves than we ever were. In particular, my boss continues to be surprised when I come into work when I really shouldn't be there but I'm of the generation that was taught presenteeism above all else; it's not about working, but it's about being seen to come in and be the martyr anyway rather than staying home, recuperating and coming back better. (Obviously, this has some income related consequences, but nowhere I've worked in the last 20 years has made this a significant fact)

the majority of society are simply consumers... the actual generators of thoughtful and active intelligent processes are few and far between.

My experience is that this is also absolutely not age or generation related. This iteration it's the social medias and the YouTubes, 20 years ago it was consoles, 20 years before that it was TV.

Being thoughtful and active is high effort. Especially in a world that, for many (especially in the Gen Z bracket), requires working multiple jobs just to stay afloat, they don't have the *time* to be thoughtful and actively 'intelligent' as you put it.

I'm fortunate enough that I only work 8:30am - 5:30pm and have no commute (and your *retirement* income is still several multiples of mine) but in the past I've worked 100 hour weeks because it needed to happen, or so I thought.

Classic case is my niche... much of Gen Z would simply want to know how to point their cell phone at the sky and take a "fantastic picture of a galaxy". Once you talk about the actual requirements... the glassy eyes kick in.

That's not restricted to Gen Z at all. My mother had much the same question for my step-father when he got his telescope.

What I will say for Gen Z is that when something seems so unobtainable as to be infeasible, they pay it less thought than I might, and because of the growing inequality of wealth between generations they're paying it less thought than ever.

 

[Tracy]

My experience is that this is also absolutely not age or generation related. This iteration it's the social medias and the YouTubes, 20 years ago it was consoles, 20 years before that it was TV.

Ergo my statement that the majority of society are simply consumers.. you do realize that even old farts pick up on certain behavioral patterns of others, right?

That's not restricted to Gen Z at all. My mother had much the same question for my step-father when he got his telescope.

But the point is (and I've dealt with this first hand) that the youth tend to get glassy eyed much quicker when trying to explain it to them (using a factor of several different persons that expressed interest in the field - several being under 20 and the others being between 36 and 45). For folks that aren't interested in the field... ALL of their eyes glass over in about 30 seconds. 🤣

What I will say for Gen Z is that when something seems so unobtainable as to be infeasible they pay it less thought than I might, and because of the growing inequality of wealth between generations they're paying it less thought than ever.

And that's a major issue in my niche.. and one of the reasons I'm working by arse off to accumulate a wide variety of equipment to use for the local astronomy group I'm wanting to start. I want to show everyone that you don't have to have $8K to get into the hobby... a few hundred and some patience can work out well. Something as simple as a DSLR camera with a decent lens and tripod can do some fantastic captures.
Heck, even a simple handheld cell phone camera can get some "neat" stuff.

The problem is (with ALL segments of our society) is that they've seen picture after picture and think that when they look through a telescope, that's what they are going to see.

Classic case... with the 7 Sisters (the Pleiades) you see photos like this regularly.

And folks thinks will be what they see through a telescope.. what you actually see are those individual stars.. you do not see the "blue mist" between them, and most of the stars simply appear white. They then get disappointed. It's a job to get them to understand they are simply taking the first step through the doorway that can eventually lead them to what they see in photos if they want to pursue it that far.
And no, it's not restricted to only the younger generation... it happens to ALL of them.

 

[Arantor]

even old farts pick up on certain behavioral patterns of others, right?

Yes, but you seemed to be attributing it to mostly Gen Z, when it's really not.

the youth tend to get glassy eyed much quicker when trying to explain it to them (using a factor of several different persons that expressed interest in the field - several being under 20 and the others being between 36 and 45)

You do realise that a person under 20 has only 20 years of life experience and learning to bring, vs the others with maybe twice the literal life experience? There are certainly concepts I encounter now with much more clarity than I ever would at 20, even though I've had no exposure whatsoever just because I have a more broad life experience than I did then.

Given that learning is a process of building associations, exposure to more things to have made associations about is... kinda important. As is the fact that it's becoming more and more agreed amongst neuroscientists that the human brain isn't really fully formed until around 25 in practice, rather than the 16-18.

I would also wonder if the glassy-eyed reaction is also because they suddenly realised it's far less achievable for the younger demographic than the older?

I want to show everyone that you don't have to have $8K to get into the hobby... a few hundred and some patience can work out well.

Even a few hundred is quite possibly money they won't have, nothing to do with patience. I only have to look at the stories in this country of people who have been choosing to heat their house during the winter or eat, because they couldn't afford to do both. A few hundred to look at stars... that's a good few meals they can make out of that.

And no, it's not restricted to only the younger generation... it happens to ALL of them.

Indeed, which is kind of why it irked me to see this brought up in a discussion primarily about engaging the youth, because it's a distraction from encouraging that group to participate.


I guess also I'm irked by this conversation in general because instead of musing how we can engage the youth, you seem to just be bashing them at every opportunity for not being you - or at the very least, complaining how things are different rather than thinking about how we can change that. I realise you think you're just telling it how it is, but it's not actually as helpful as you seem to think it is.

 

[Tracy]

Yes, but you seemed to be attributing it to mostly Gen Z, when it's really not.

No, this conversation is about Gen Z... the issue applies to most of those from about 45 down to their teens. It's even infected some "old farts".

You do realise that a person under 20 has only 20 years of life experience and learning to bring, vs the others with maybe twice the literal life experience?

And exactly how does that impact their ability to gather new information? In fact, the younger person should have MORE ability to gather new information.. you see, that older person has MORE to store that he has accumulated.

I would also wonder if the glassy-eyed reaction is also because they suddenly realised it's far less achievable for the younger demographic than the older?

Not really... as I said, it doesn't take "tons" of money.. in fact, honestly for what most Gen Z and Millennials spend in 6 months to a year on "junk" they could get into the field using a simple DSLR (Canon T3I - about $330) and about $400 more for a REALLY decent tracking mount) and they would be pretty much ready to go. Let's see... $5 a latte, 5 lattes a week. Hmmm.. in 29 weeks they could have what they needed and simply miss a coffee for 5 days (if they grab one each day of the week then it would only take about 20 weeks)... which is what, less than 1/2 a year. It's ALL a matter of priority. Instant gratification compared to future enjoyment that lasts longer than a 10-15 minutes drinking a coffee.

you seem to just be bashing them at every opportunity for not being you - or at the very least, complaining how things are different rather than thinking about how we can change that.

Problem is... neither you NOR I can change that... it's simply the way society is... Gen Z just is at the forefront of it. Simple forums are going to go the way of the BBS's of yore... and honest to god, there's not that much you can do to prevent it without re-educating ALL of society and actually getting them to engage fully.
Simple changes to the format of forums or the layout are NOT going to be enough. And to meet the "give it to me now, quickly so I can go on to other things" simply won't work in many niche forum areas... for general BS chatter, yep... but no matter what you or I would like.. certain niches involve detail.. and THAT is becoming an oxymoron to society in general... not just Gen Z, but ALL of society. They are getting lazier and simply want to be "given" instead of actually creating.

 

[Arantor]

Forgive me if I haven't given up on society yet.

 

[Tracy]

Forgive me if I haven't given up on society yet.

Wait a few years.. you will.
You will realize that the ONLY person you are responsible for, and should be worried about is yourself, then followed closely by your direct family. Anyone else is simply incidental. An individual has NO sway on the way society progresses in todays age... not even Gandhi nor Mother Teresa succeeded in that. A short "eddy" maybe... but a historical change.. nope.
Might as well wish for an 👽 to land and give us new direction.

 

[Arantor]

And that right there is your problem. You're too busy shouting down anything that might stand any sort of chance of anything to ever consider there might be alternatives.

An individual has no sway on the way society progresses... I think Mark Zuckerberg would beg to differ. And possibly Jack Dorsey. Am I likely to be in their league? Hardly, but I have a few things I want to explore and try and maybe I won't get anywhere, but at least I will have tried something, and maybe learned a bit about humanity in the process.

 

[Tracy]

P

And that right there is your problem. You're too busy shouting down anything that might stand any sort of chance of anything to ever consider there might be alternatives.

Feel free to show me where I've "shouted down" anything. I may have commented that for ME it would not be a viable solution.... got a feeling you tend/trend to go off the deep end?

I think Mark Zuckerberg would beg to differ

Honestly... once more.. a short term swing... exactly HOW relevant is he (or actually FB currently). You DO realize that FB is bleeding subscribers regularly and the younger generations avoid it... right?
Explain to me how exactly is that ANY different that the folks that created software during the ages of the BBS, then "forwarded" it by adding FidoNet mail delivery services... then it progressed to the internet and then onward... you see... there is ALWAYS someone that makes a brief change... but exactly HOW does FB currently impact YouTube.... InstaGram, Twitter or any of those other services...

bit about humanity in the process.

let me give you a hint on humanity at its core nature (and I'm pretty sure I've had a LOT more exposure to society overall and at it's best and worst, than you have)... mankind ultimately is ONLY concerned (by majority) with himself/herself. They may mouth platitudes otherwise... but when it comes down to the actual "survival" aspect... guess what comes out. I't isn't "I'll jump off the cliff so you can live" pattern. You can have all your "pie in the sky" hopes... but then reality comes crashiing down.