What do you think forums could do to make a comeback over social media?

[joelr]

I think that last point is extremely important to unpick and understand: self hosted communities, as far as I'm concerned, simply must survive in some form. The cloud experience, while highly desirable for corporates, is not conducive to the sort of community spirit that the best *communities* (not the same as 'forums') thrive in.

I'm going to challenge you in this point. The cloud experience is, first of all, like 98% the same as a self hosted experience. Same forum, same reaction, same boards and posts and topics. You just have some marginally better features (like in the case of IPS, you get Live Topics).

It's also a tenuous point that how you host somehow impacts your community spirit. Your community spirit is a reflection of your culture, your involvement, your attitude with members. How you host is basically what hosting package you pick.

The only thing I will say is that cloud packages probably demand a monetization strategy of some sort. This does mean pushing some sort of e-commerce or subscriptions or advertising, but many self hosted sites do that too.

 

[Cedric]

I'm going to challenge you in this point. The cloud experience is, first of all, like 98% the same as a self hosted experience. Same forum, same reaction, same boards and posts and topics. You just have some marginally better features (like in the case of IPS, you get Live Topics).

It's also a tenuous point that how you host somehow impacts your community spirit. Your community spirit is a reflection of your culture, your involvement, your attitude with members. How you host is basically what hosting package you pick.

The only thing I will say is that cloud packages probably demand a monetization strategy of some sort. This does mean pushing some sort of e-commerce or subscriptions or advertising, but many self hosted sites do that too.

I love the the Live Topics feature and I think it's really neat. But I'm unsure how regular communities will utilize this feature. I can see it being used by companies, for sure. But if 98% of those cloud clients are the same like self hosted, then what is really the big difference between those two?

 

[Arantor]

The cloud experience is, first of all, like 98% the same as a self hosted experience.

Ohhhhhhhhh no. Cloud comes with limits on what the site owner can do, in a way self hosting doesn't.

Consider that if SMF were a cloud vendor, Wedge would never have existed. Ditto StoryBB. This is *important* to understand, that the freedom must exist to take the base and build on it in ways the original vendor could *never* have imagined, subject to licensing etc.

That 2% suddenly looks like it's doing a lot of lifting - but that depends where you sit.

I'll give you that 98% of communities don't do anything out there where it would matter, but the 2% do - and for the 2% that's *everything*. It's quite often their USP.

But also I'll point out that the kinds of communities I frequent wouldn't exist on the likes of IPS - because they'd simply never go there. It looks too corporate for their liking and they're put off up front by the apparent sterility of it, when other offerings feel more welcoming, for whatever value of welcoming that feels like. Consider for a moment why so many people flocked to Jcink in the way of ZetaBoards - the cloudy aspect, such as it is, is pure convenience for them, the familiarity is far more important. (And the feature restriction is intense there.)


And here's the other thing - I can run a lot of forums on a server (even a managed one) for the price of one month's cloudy XF or IPS. Yes, we have to factor in the cost of my time in management but that's still a steep bargain for me not to use a cloudy service.

 

[joelr]

You'll need to help me out here, but were the variants of SMF (to Wedge and StoryBB) because the licensing and attribution, or how it was hosted?

And here's the other thing - I can run a lot of forums on a server (even a managed one) for the price of one month's cloudy XF or IPS. Yes, we have to factor in the cost of my time in management but that's still a steep bargain for me not to use a cloudy service.

An extra spicy take: most forum webmasters are challenged with running one good successful forum. Why would you want to run several?

It seems like they're more interested in the server administration and tinkering than they are with effective community management and strategy.

 

[Arantor]

You'll need to help me out here, but were the variants of SMF (to Wedge and StoryBB) because the licensing and attribution, or how it was hosted?

SMF became proper open source in 2011 - but if it had been hosted there is literally no choice we'd have been able to do that.

An extra spicy take: most forum webmasters are challenged with running one good successful forum. Why would you want to run several?

It seems like they're more interested in the server administration and tinkering than they are with effective community management and strategy.

Fair point. Some people do manage it, though, and not because they're interested in the hosting side of things.

But consider, I can buy and run IPS for a single forum cheaper than I can pay their hosting, even if I spend next to zero time on the hosting component by just going out to market and picking a hosting company.

 

[Tracy]

That’s true, there will always be people who prefer forums above social media. You use forums for more in-depth discussions where that is not possible on social media.

It's possible... the issue is your typical SM participant quits reading after 2-3 sentences typically.

 

[Debashis]

Do you think forums need to become more like social media? Do you think forums just need a major revamp from the way they work and are designed? Do you think forums need to have more opportunities to make money? What's your opinion on the subject?

I think forums are good the way they are. Social media is vastly used for entertainment whereas forums are used for more serious discussions on a niche along with having some general discussion as well. I feel forums are more healthy than social media so they are already great in their own way.

 

[Empire]

I say use social media to help to open and bring Forums back, you got to move on with the future and sue that as a benefit

 

[Reverie]

I say use social media to help to open and bring Forums back, you got to move on with the future and sue that as a benefit

I agree with this! Gotta go to the people, which are on social media, to bring them over to the "dark side" lol.

 

[joelr]

Here's the other part of the equation: forums are villages, 'the socials' are cities. If you want a small curated experience, the bar where everyone knows your name, etc., forums are the place to go. Meanwhile if you want a thousand choices, all of which are equally shallow, then the socials are where it's at.

I've heard you mention that forums are like intimate bars or villages, where people know each other.

I'm going to push back on that perspedtive. Once your forum starts to get to a large size, it starts to become a large city like other large communities.

If the forum stays niche and small and focused, then yes it retains it's intimate atmosphere (just like any small group). Once that group starts to get bigger, then it starts to approach general population and will naturally lose the it imtimacy (unless fostered by other means, such as micro communities or clubs).

 

[Cedric]

I've heard you mention that forums are like intimate bars or villages, where people know each other.

I'm going to push back on that perspedtive. Once your forum starts to get to a large size, it starts to become a large city like other large communities.

If the forum stays niche and small and focused, then yes it retains it's intimate atmosphere (just like any small group). Once that group starts to get bigger, then it starts to approach general population and will naturally lose the it imtimacy (unless fostered by other means, such as micro communities or clubs).

I guess it also comes to a point when a forum becomes a big board and the admin tends to care less about its members. I’ve seen it numerous times before that they all grow out of it and the community is no longer a tight knit community but a large one which loses its focus.

Why do you think that tends to happen? Just lose interest in it? And move on?

 

[joelr]

I guess it also comes to a point when a forum becomes a big board and the admin tends to care less about its members. I’ve seen it numerous times before that they all grow out of it and the community is no longer a tight knit community but a large one which loses its focus.

Why do you think that tends to happen? Just lose interest in it? And move on?

Not at all. It's a natural maturation of the community lifecycle. You evolve as an administrator from someone who is posting content to someone who is moderating other people's content to someone who is ensuring platform stability.

It's easy to say hello to all members when you only have 3 members visiting a day. My community has 50,000 members and hundreds of active members every day. I literally couldn't say hello to everyone even if I wanted to. I haven't lost focus, I've just evolved my personal focus.

 

[Cedric]

Not at all. It's a natural maturation of the community lifecycle. You evolve as an administrator from someone who is posting content to someone who is moderating other people's content to someone who is ensuring platform stability.

It's easy to say hello to all members when you only have 3 members visiting a day. My community has 50,000 members and hundreds of active members every day. I literally couldn't say hello to everyone even if I wanted to. I haven't lost focus, I've just evolved my personal focus.

Do you regret having that evolution? I mean, I enjoy posting with members, but wouldn’t want us to become a big board as I enjoy our tight community.

is there any aspect you’d do differently looking back?

 

[Ravenfreak]

I don't think forums should be like social media. Honestly with how much the popular social media platforms are with their moderation, it's a good chance that forums may one day take over social media again. Facebook is pretty strict on their moderation, my best friend has had random images flagged as inappropriate even though they're not. His main account was place in "FB Jail" once because of the same reason. I've had a post I shared get removed due to the "community guidelines" yet it didn't break any rules.

 

[Cory]

Honestly with how much the popular social media platforms are with their moderation, it's a good chance that forums may one day take over social media again.

I honestly doubt that. People connect with mostly family and friends on social media. You mainly connect with random strangers on forums. You also don't find a lot of celebrities/famous people on forums like you do on social media. It's easy to seek validation and instant gratification on social media, more so than forums, I think. Both platforms have their pros and cons, but forums are honestly like an older type of social media that's been overrun by tech giants and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

 

[Xilia]

It would be extremely difficult to do.
I prefer the UI to forum based chatting as opposed to places like Facebook or Twitter because I am an absolute sucker for easy organization. There's a lot of big groups on say Facebook (50k+ members) and I hate feeling like I'm endlessly scrolling just to find one topic or thread I like.

 

[Spartan]

Forums have to become more mobile friendly, I think that’s one of the most attractive thing about social media is mobile friendliness.

 

[Al]

That's what people primarily post on their timelines anyway, their own successes.

“For every selfie that gets posted on social media there are 99 photos which are never seen.” - Al.