Trump at it Again

[Tracy]

The top economists disagree with you and your YouTube video.

That is a prevalent issue with a LOT of Trump supporters. They seem to get their information from very limited (and usually very biased) sources. Seems that they can't deal with doing broad research that may disagree with them.... hmmmm.... that habit sounds familiar to Trump doesn't it?

 

[Carlos]

That is a prevalent issue with a LOT of Trump supporters. They seem to get their information from very limited (and usually very biased) sources. Seems that they can't deal with doing broad research that may disagree with them.... hmmmm.... that habit sounds familiar to Trump doesn't it?

I get it. You hate Trump. You hate the Republicans. You hate everything and everyone. You try to argue with everyone. You shit on threads and people put up with your fucking bullshit. You even hate me, so every time I say something you want to be a contrary just for the sake of arguing.

At this point, kindly fuck off, bro.

I give up arguing with you. Just when I thought we can reasonably discuss you come out here with a snipe. Fuck you and most leftists.

Might as well walk the streets and enjoy them feces of Seattle, bitch boy.

Now two people are on my ignore list, congratulations boys. You just made the list!

 

[Tracy]

You hate the Republicans.

I've been a Republican voter probably longer than you have been alive. So no, I don't hate Republicans. I hate what Trump and his sycophants have done to my party.
And sorry if you feel pointing out fallacies in your statements is "arguing". Seems that others have done the same also.

At this point, kindly fuck off, bro.

And how about you working on gaining a clue to reality? If you want to come into a public venue and spew fantasy positions, be prepared to be confronted and have to defend them.
You seem to be incapable of being able to deal with being told you are not correct in your suppositions, even when there are facts GIVEN to you to enhance your base of knowledge. And let's mention again that others have told you the same thing and that there are a majority of financial experts better versed in world economics than either Trump or you that are saying the same thing. Your tariff position seems to morph to try to make up for your lack of knowledge, but the core foundation based upon sand. And apparently that bothers you.

Might as well walk the streets and enjoy them feces of Seattle, bitch boy.

Yes, this is the typical MAGA sycophant attitude in full display. Can't handle being confronted and shown that their fantasy is just that, so time for a temper tantrum. Kind of like Trump and his 1am Truth Social lash outs.

As I said, the proof will be in the pudding in two years. If the GOP loses the House and the Senate, then it simply shows that Trump and his MAGA philosophy has once again failed.

 

[Carlos]

I've been a Republican voter probably longer than you have been alive. So no, I don't hate Republicans. I hate what Trump and his sycophants have done to my party.
And sorry if you feel pointing out fallacies in your statements is "arguing". Seems that others have done the same also.

Yeah, but they seem to try to at least engage and try to understand.

You seem to be incapable of being able to deal with being told you are not correct in your suppositions, even when there are facts GIVEN to you to enhance your base of knowledge. And let's mention again that others have told you the same thing and that there are a majority of financial experts better versed in world economics than either Trump or you that are saying the same thing. Your tariff position seems to morph to try to make up for your lack of knowledge, but the core foundation based upon sand. And apparently that bothers you.

No, its just you trying to smear my name. You always did this, even on xenForo. People like YOU are the reason why I got banned. Ok, so go fuck yourself.

In fact, stay in your Seattle, crime infested Democrat stronghold. I want you, I want you to walk the streets and realize WHY you are in that state of affairs.

I tried to at least understand, but we are going in circles because you wouldn't try to understand WHAT I'M SAYING... BUT HEY... I'M THE IDIOT BECAUSE YOU HAVE A sweetheart named Spartan.

I'm naive! I don't understand like I'm a retard. Cool, hope you feel good about yourself and/or yourselves.

Sigh, back to ignoring you.

Guys, I am a nice guy until you piss me off. It's just that simple. You want nice Carlos? Be nice and respectful. Simple. You want asshole Carlos? All you have to do is piss me off. All you have to do is ask for it. You got what you wanted.

You. Got. What. You. Wanted.

I hope you're happy.

 

[Spartan]

Yeah, but they seem to try to at least engage and try to understand.

No, its just you trying to smear my name. You always did this, even on xenForo. People like YOU are the reason why I got banned. Ok, so go fuck yourself.

In fact, stay in your Seattle, crime infested Democrat stronghold. I want you, I want you to walk the streets and realize WHY you are in that state of affairs.

I tried to at least understand, but we are going in circles because you wouldn't try to understand WHAT I'M SAYING... BUT HEY... I'M THE IDIOT BECAUSE YOU HAVE A sweetheart named Spartan.

I'm naive! I don't understand like I'm a retard. Cool, hope you feel good about yourself and/or yourselves.

Sigh, back to ignoring you.

Guys, I am a nice guy until you piss me off. It's just that simple. You want nice Carlos? Be nice and respectful. Simple. You want asshole Carlos? All you have to do is piss me off. All you have to do is ask for it. You got what you wanted.

You. Got. What. You. Wanted.

I hope you're happy.

Why are you mad at me because you don’t know what a tariff is

 

[Carlos]

Why are you mad at me because you don’t know what a tariff is

You want to lie?

Bro, I know what it is, ITS NOT MY FAULT YOU COULDN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT I WAS TRYING TO SAY!

Maybe try to understand. Maybe try to engage rather than going like... Lalalala.

Just so you know... you are on the list. Happy?

 

[Spartan]

You want to lie?

Bro, I know what it is, ITS NOT MY FAULT YOU COULDN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT I WAS TRYING TO SAY!

Maybe try to understand. Maybe try to engage rather than going like... Lalalala.

Just so you know... you are on the list. Happy?

I’m sure you’re on a few list

 

[Tracy]

No, its just you trying to smear my name. You always did this, even on xenForo. People like YOU are the reason why I got banned. Ok, so go fuck yourself.

Did you ever stop to think that is behavior like this that might have resulted in that?
Things that make you go hmmmmm..

In fact stay in your Seattle, crime infested Democrat stronghold. I want you, I want you to walk the streets and realize WHY you are in that state of affairs.

Sorry... I live in East Texas... one of the hearts of conservatism. And as I have commented, I've voted Republican longer than you have been walking this planet. I simply don't vote idiot.
Remind us... what state do you live in? And no, we are talking physical geographical state, not the one of paranoia or fantasy.

I tried to at least understand, but we are going in circles because you wouldn't try to understand WHAT I'M SAYING... BUT HEY... I'M THE IDIOT BECAUSE YOU HAVE A sweetheart named Spartan.

I understand fine. You are the one that can't seem to realize that your position on tariff's and their negative impact on OUR country is incorrect. But you want to try, by whatever morphing of position you can do, to seem to be correct.
Trump wants you to believe that those other countries pay for those increased costs, when by the very nature of the tariff act, the IMPORTERS (who are US businesses) are the ones that pay that additional cost, not the shipper/manufacturer. And those additional costs get passed on to the consumer to pay because the majority of those big businesses are not going to give away any of their profits to the peons, but to investors and their CEO/CFO level staff.
It would be different if at the port of call there was a surcharge given directly to the shippers that had to be paid before the product could be offloaded... but that is not how the law is written.

But, as I mentioned... Trump is the P.T. Barnum of the GOP, and apparently you are one of the ones that Barnum is claimed to have stated being born every minute.
Now, remind us... what segment of society will be the hardest hit by increased costs of products? If you said lower and middle class you win a kewpie doll. And that's where a LOT of the MAGA support originated from, and from those with less than a college level education that frequently can't trouble themselves to try to learn how finances work and live from paycheck to paycheck (with the frequently pay-day loan thrown in). Those are the folks that aren't going to be able to afford to even maintain their current lifestyle.
Around 72% of the US is classified as middle to low class based upon income. Those are the ones that generally are having to buy that "cheap stuff" just to get by... increase their costs and you will see a bigger hue & cry about the economy than you have under the current administration.

I'm really sorry that evidence based facts negatively impose on your fallacious position you try to speak from... but facts rule the roost. And trying to change your stance only shows how weak your argument really is. Tariffs amount to what is an import tax that is paid by the end consumer and not the foreign countries that they are imposed upon. They are entirely an attempt to punish our citizens to attempt to force them (and the businesses) to comply with the wishes of a current governments wants (Buy 'Merican/Build 'Merican). And generally that is not to the benefit of the citizens, because then you have a trade war that starts. Remember the billions of dollars that our government had to pay to our farmers because of Trump's last trade war? Seems that the benefit from those tariffs did not offset what our government expended to our farmers. So where do you think those billions of dollars came from? The Dollar Trees in the back 40 of the White House or Mar-a-Lago club?

 

[Tracy]

I’m sure you’re on a few list

Carlos is Carlos is Carlos. If you know him, you know to overlook his temper outbursts. He tends to go off the deep end when confronted , and especially gets rather radical when he's proven to be incorrect (which has in the past been the regular occurrence), and then it becomes everyone against him according to him.
He usually argues from a position of opinion/feeling and facts that negate that tend to set him off.

 

[Carlos]

I’m sure you’re on a few list

I'm sorry, who? You? Ha!

 

[Carlos]

Did you ever stop to think that is behavior like this that might have resulted in that?
Things that make you go hmmmmm..

You ever think for a second there's losers like you who bait people? And INTENTIONALLY goad people into arguing? Yeah. THAT. But you will only present yourself as this holy thou. Ever so innocent.

<gets close to Tracy's ear> You and I both know you are a fucking drama queen. Anyone who cares can go into any one of the xenForo threads, and find your name.. Tracy Perry or TPerry, and they can see your history of trolling people.

Nobody likes you there. By the time I go back there, everyone will go like "Carlos wasn't as bad as Tracy, SneakyDave or any of these trolls." Because WITHOUT me being there people still bring up my name, just so they can smear my name. That's the truth. That's what you're doing. NOW.

I hate drama, I hate drama queens... and that's what you are. <whispers> And don't you forget it.

You want drama? Just ask, Tracy. Just ask.

 

[Tracy]

You ever think for a second there's losers like you who bait people? And INTENTIONALLY goad people into arguing? Yeah. THAT. But you will only present yourself as this holy thou. Ever so innocent.

You don't want to engage in debate, then don't try to post from a position of knowledge, when that knowledge is incorrect, especially in a public area. Go to X or Truth Social for that.
It has been shown time and time again that your knowledge of tariffs, their effects on the consumer and the way they are implemented is sorely lacking. You have also been giving links to provide the ability to expand your knowledge, but apparently fail to utilize them, because you still try to make the same factually insufficient claims.

And no, I don't claim to be innocent nor perfect. I myself am banned over on the XF site for confronting (heatedly at times) the XF developers. And I honestly really have no desire to participate and give them benefit of my knowledge, because I got very little from that site when I asked for assistance and generally had to figure the issue out myself. It's one of the reasons that I now participate over on an alternative XenForo Help site.

But when I see people spouting off as they if it is from a position of knowledge, and it's so readily apparent it is incorrect, I have no issues with calling them out. That's why I have such an issue with MAGA and the Cult of Trump idiots. They regularly spout easily disproven male bovine excrement as fact, when it is very easily shown to be far from that.
I have myself been known to be incorrect <shock, gasp>... but I do have a tendency to acknowledge that when shown facts that are in opposition to my position. But sorry, personal opinions don't meet the base level of facts.

You, like many MAGA supporters, tend to try to dig in and defend the indefensible. And the more that type is shown to be incorrect, the more they tend to lash out and they morph into other allegations (most again which are easily shown to be not based in fact).
And on that last topic, this is the party that was yelling about Pizza Gate and the need to protect our children and the claim that they are for the protection of women against sexual assault, yet we have President-Elect who has nominated for top positions an individual that was facing a damning ethics report that involved sex with a minor, one that is accused of sexual assault against an intoxicated individual (most states an intoxicated person cannot give consent), to others who have been accused of various sexual misconduct behaviors and one that has a pending lawsuit that she (and her husband) were accused of grooming and sexual exploitation of children.

 

[Carlos]

Remind us... what state do you live in? And no, we are talking physical geographical state, not the one of paranoia or fantasy.

Psst. I don't live in California. I just chose to leave my former state there. I don't always announce where I live. You don't deserve my kindness. No you don't.

You just insulted me... again.

I understand fine. You are the one that can't seem to realize that your position on tariff's and their negative impact on OUR country is incorrect. But you want to try, by whatever morphing of position you can do, to seem to be correct.

No you don't understand. You never did. Because if you did, you would've met people in the middle.

Trump wants you to believe that those other countries pay for those increased costs, when by the very nature of the tariff act, the IMPORTERS (who are US businesses) are the ones that pay that additional cost, not the shipper/manufacturer.

And that's where we disagree, because the tariffs passes the "hidden tax" onto civilians AND consumers. When, you pay for goods, you're taxed TWO ways. The price itself, and the register.

I'm not gonna be in fantasy land and lie that we're not getting taxes via imports.

We raise prices because of the taxes. Ok? So, let's say you buy an EV, What normally costs $20,000 is now $30,000. Which i give you credit for bringing up. (Lookie there, there's me trying to see your side.)

But, what happens HERE? We, the people pay taxes. The government decides how much people are taxed. So, with Tariffs... government taxes the country with other means. Yes, they do. Otherwise, those ships would be rejected. Anyone who doesn't pay port fees get punished. Because you still need to deliver goods to A. Drivers. B. Truckers. Or other means of delivery. Put it another way, some countries even use planes as freight shipping. That's more expensive. PlayStation 5, Nintendo Switch are shipped this way, and companies have to subsidize that shipment.

I can go on and on. Its far more complicated than I'm making it out to be, and I don't claim to be an expert. But Tariffs are good for countries that do it. Thing is, it needs to be equal.

 

[Tracy]

No you don't understand. You never did. Because if you did, you would've met people in the middle.

There IS no "middle" on this. Tariffs cost the consumer.... that is simply a fact of life. I am sorry if it doesn't help your feelers, but facts ARE facts. Remember, we are currently discoursing on that very item... not something you may be remembering from years ago or another conversation. Some things you can "meet in the middle" about, but this is simply not one of them.

And that's where we disagree, because the tariffs passes the "hidden tax" onto civilians AND consumers. When, you pay for goods, you're taxed TWO ways. The price itself, and the register.

This makes zero sense. The price you pay IS at the register. You don't get charged twice.
You get charged one price, and in the case of tariffs, that fee has them built into it. Without the tariffs, that price would be lower. That is, unless you are talking about sales tax, which is not generated to the benefit of the federal government, but your local and state government. And that tax has zero bearing on tariffs or what the President does.
And remember, it was you who was previously claiming that tariffs were NOT a tax.... I simply told you that yes, they were what amounted to an import tax, but one that was paid for by the consumer and not the seller.

But Tariffs are good for countries that do it.

When they are used for what they were designed for... agreed.
But for what Trump wants to use them for it has been shown time and time again to be a drain on our society that is likely to worsen the very inflation he whined about.

Yet most mainstream economists say Trump’s policy proposals wouldn’t vanquish inflation. They’d make it worse. They warn that his plans to impose huge tariffs on imported goods, deport millions of migrant workers and demand a voice in the Federal Reserve’s interest rate policies would likely send prices surging.
Sixteen Nobel Prize-winning economists signed a letter in June expressing fear that Trump’s proposals would “reignite’’ inflation, which has plummeted since peaking at 9.1% in 2022 and is nearly back to the Fed’s 2% target.

And then we have this

Last month, the Peterson Institute for International Economics predicted that Trump’s policies — the deportations, import taxes and efforts to erode the Fed’s independence — would drive consumer prices sharply higher two years into his second term. Peterson’s analysis concluded that inflation, which would otherwise register 1.9% in 2026, would instead jump to between 6% and 9.3% if Trump’s economic proposals were adopted.

Let's not forget this little tidbit (for those who do try to keep up with stuff like this)

Peter Berezin, the chief global strategist for BCA Research, said the chances of a US recession had jumped since President-elect Donald Trump's win last week.
In a Friday note, Berezin increased the probability of an economic recession to 75% from 65%, citing the risk of a new trade war under Trump.
"The prospect of a new trade war more than offsets the other pro-business parts of Trump's agenda," Berezin said. "With the labor market already weakening going into the election, the odds of a recession have risen."

So you have folks warning towards inflation and possibly even recession. But overall, they all agree that his stated positions are not beneficial to the nation.
But then you have the "good little Trump followers" that are yelling "Yeah, stick it to them", not realizing that THEY are the very THEM that they are talking about.

 

[Carlos]

There IS no "middle" on this. Tariffs cost the consumer.... that is simply a fact of life. I am sorry if it doesn't help your feelers, but facts ARE facts. Remember, we are currently discoursing on that very item... not something you may be remembering from years ago or another conversation. Some things you can "meet in the middle" about, but this is simply not one of them.

I just met you in the middle. And then you just wanted to piss me off by saying "no!" Soooo, if you don't want to listen to me, then, I won't either. How about that?

This makes zero sense. The price you pay IS at the register. You don't get charged twice.
You get charged one price, and in the case of tariffs, that fee has them built into it. Without the tariffs, that price would be lower. That is, unless you are talking about sales tax, which is not generated to the benefit of the federal government, but your local and state government. And that tax has zero bearing on tariffs or what the President does.
And remember, it was you who was previously claiming that tariffs were NOT a tax.... I simply told you that yes, they were what amounted to an import tax, but one that was paid for by the consumer and not the seller.

You are stupid. You don't even look at your receipts? You don't look at at your subtotals?

When they are used for what they were designed for... agreed.

See! That wasn't so hard!

 

[Tracy]

I just met you in the middle. And then you just wanted to piss me off by saying "no!" Soooo, if you don't want to listen to me, then, I won't either. How about that?

Again, there is no middle. Tariffs cost the consumer more and do zero towards punishing the country they are against.
Explain to me how there can be a middle in this? Does the other country pay 50% of it then the consumer pay the other 50%?
VERY rarely will an importer cover those tariffs (there are a few rare exceptions). So it's either one or the other in reality. And the way Trump is calling for is idiotic.

You are stupid. You don't even look at your receipts? You don't look at at your subtotals?

You reference apparently sales tax. Guess what... the federal government (and tariffs) have ZERO to do with that. THAT is a tax that is set and controlled by your local and state government. Not really that hard to know the difference.
Although yes, I did get a couple of receipts during the Trump years that DID show a "tariff import fee" on them. Guess what, that had zero to do with the taxes you normally pay as a sales tax.
Maybe you are more the one that is lacking of knowledge of taxes and how they work, who controls the rate of them and what legislative body/bodies they originate from? There is a difference between sales taxes, income taxes (state) and income taxes (federal), then other assorted type taxes/fees that may be charged for other things.

See! That wasn't so hard!

I've never claimed otherwise. What Trump claims to want to do is WELL outside of what they were used for unless you fall back to the 19th century (remember, we ARE in the 21st century). Living in the past generally is not the best place to be.

When they are used to level a playing field, like say with China that their government directly invests in the businesses and offsets any losses with government money, then they are of benefit.
But to use them just to "get your way" to force companies to bring production back to the US because the government thinks that is the way it should be, that is not what tariffs were designed for. If you want to do that, then you simply go through Congress and legislate a tax that you apply against those companies. But we all know that won't happen, because then you are MORE likely to drive those companies overseas. So, instead of moving against the companies, they are more comfortable with moving against the US consumer and making them pay more.

 

[Carlos]

And no, I don't claim to be innocent nor perfect. I myself am banned over on the XF site for confronting (heatedly at times) the XF developers. And I honestly really have no desire to participate and give them benefit of my knowledge, because I got very little from that site when I asked for assistance and generally had to figure the issue out myself. It's one of the reasons that I now participate over on an alternative XenForo Help site.

Liar. You know full well I'm right.

But when I see people spouting off as they if it is from a position of knowledge, and it's so readily apparent it is incorrect, I have no issues with calling them out. That's why I have such an issue with MAGA and the Cult of Trump idiots. They regularly spout easily disproven male bovine excrement as fact, when it is very easily shown to be far from that.
I have myself been known to be incorrect <shock, gasp>... but I do have a tendency to acknowledge that when shown facts that are in opposition to my position. But sorry, personal opinions don't meet the base level of facts.

You are like 4 years into a rock. You have no idea cult is the Democrats. So, enjoy your liberal compatriants.

You, like many MAGA supporters, tend to try to dig in and defend the indefensible. And the more that type is shown to be incorrect, the more they tend to lash out and they morph into other allegations (most again which are easily shown to be not based in fact).
And on that last topic, this is the party that was yelling about Pizza Gate and the need to protect our children and the claim that they are for the protection of women against sexual assault, yet we have President-Elect who has nominated for top positions an individual that was facing a damning ethics report that involved sex with a minor, one that is accused of sexual assault against an intoxicated individual (most states an intoxicated person cannot give consent), to others who have been accused of various sexual misconduct behaviors and one that has a pending lawsuit that she (and her husband) were accused of grooming and sexual exploitation of children.

The grooming stuff, sexual stuff is propaganda and you're falling for it. It's basic cancel culture.

Again, there is no middle. Tariffs cost the consumer more and do zero towards punishing the country they are against.
Explain to me how there can be a middle in this? Does the other country pay 50% of it then the consumer pay the other 50%?

I did, and you ignored it, just like you ignored everything I said. EVERYTHING.

You reference apparently sales tax. Guess what... the federal government (and tariffs) have ZERO to do with that. THAT is a tax that is set and controlled by your local and state government. Not really that hard to know the difference.

Liar. You know what I'm talking about, but then try being the idiot that you are.

Although yes, I did get a couple of receipts during the Trump years that DID show a "tariff import fee" on them. Guess what, that had zero to do with the taxes you normally pay as a sales tax.

Yawn.

I've never claimed otherwise. What Trump claims to want to do is WELL outside of what they were used for unless you fall back to the 19th century (remember, we ARE in the 21st century). Living in the past generally is not the best place to be.

Liar. This whole thread is predicated on this argument. I had to explain it in different ways, but you still don't understand.

So I'm gonna go back to ignoring you. You not gonna budge, and you don't have the self-awareness. So have fun, kid.

 

[Tracy]

The grooming stuff, sexual stuff is propaganda and you're falling for it. It's basic cancel culture.

Really? Which party has spent the last several years about PizzaGate, grooming, banning trans related medical treatment and similar? Seems that's been the MAGA GOP.
And with Gaetz, you have two people who gave sworn testimony that could result in them being jailed if they lied, and it dealt with Gaetz having sex with a 17 year old. Think Gaetz is willing to get swear upon penalty of perjury and then be willing to testify that he didn't? Or do you think he'll withdraw his nomination... oh, wait, we already know that answer.
Now we will have to wait to see how the lawsuit against his other accused child groomer/molester goes.
Of course, what do you expect from a man who brags about his position letting him grab women by the pussy. Or that has affairs on his spouse, especially with one that recently gave birth. Or bragged about how his position let him go into the dressing rooms of the Miss Universe contestants so he could ogle them and get his thrill.
He's going to want to surround himself with those of a similar outlook.

Liar. This whole thread is predicated on this argument. I had to explain it in different ways, but you still don't understand.

Ah... the fine art of MAGA mansplaining... where nothing makes sense except to the person doing the mansplaining.
Run and hide youngster... let the adults in the topic discuss the matter because it is apparent that you cannot comprehend the complexities of it.
But as a general primer, remember:
sales tax: state and local government
income tax: state and federal government
import tax: federal government

 

[Tracy]

I found that the female appointee did not directly groom, but her and her husband are accused of knowingly allowing one of their employees to do so.

The suit alleges McMahon, her husband, the WWE and TKO Group Holdings, the league’s parent company, knowingly allowed employee Melvin Phillips Jr. to use his position as ringside announcer to sexually exploit children.

The filing alleges Phillips would recruit children to work as “Ring Boys,” helping him set up and take down wrestling rings at WWE events. However, the job was a guise for sexually exploiting the children, which Phillips would do even in front of wrestlers and executives in the locker area, the lawsuit alleges. He also would often film his sexual abuse, according to the filing.

The suit was filed in October in Baltimore County, Maryland, on behalf of five John Does, who say they were ages 13 to 15 when Phillips met and recruited them to work as “Ring Boys.” Each of them say they suffered mental and emotional abuse as a result of the alleged abuse.

So see @Carlos, I'm even willing to correct myself when facts show that I made a mistaken in what I have said.

 

[Jason]

The Trump movement was a punk movement against mainstream Republicanism. It's like punk rock. It offends, of course. Isn't that the point?

But it wasn't like it didn't have it coming. Bush, Cheney and the like are very sold out to business, like how Biden is to Black Rock.