Role-playing forums the last enclave of the old forum spirit

[ten thousand]

Specifically the small hobbyist spirit that services like InvisionFree used to foster. There aren't many of those left but Jcink is the closest. I've noticed when I look for forums hosted specifically by Jcink nearly all of them are role-playing forums, a distant second are admin forums, and a very distant last are any general chat or gaming etc. Check out https://jcinkdirectory.com/ for example -- most of the categories have 0 or 1 forum in them. A few have more but none more than 10. Then role-playing has 134.

Apart from just the number of them, it seems like role-playing forums are also very interested in customizing their look and vibe. This used to happen on all forums, nowadays it seems like if you do manage to find a general chat forum it's got a bland style by comparison.

Just thought it was interesting.

 

[Cory]

My friend, Skyon Archer, built that directory. We may as well rename it "Jcink RPG Directory" as many RPG boards are on there.

It looks like a lot of people go to Jcink for RPG boards, why this is, I have no idea. I suppose a lot of the resources across the network cater to RPG boards the best.

 

[Kale]

Ahh yeah, I honestly tried joining RP forums but felt it wasn't my thing anymore. I have not tried RPing on a forum in a long while, so maybe I'd try it out again.

Anyway, yeah, Jcink is the go to for RP/RPG forums these days. I have no clue why Jcink is the go to either, but it is whatever.

We may as well rename it "Jcink RPG Directory" as many RPG boards are on there.

For real, that'd almost be the best thing to do... lol

 

[Arantor]

It's only the go-to within a very specific subset of the wider roleplay community. There is a perfectly healthy contingent of roleplayers on ProBoards, on Forumotion. There's also a very healthy contingent of people self-hosting on platforms that they tweak - I can think of plenty of folks on SMF, MyBB, phpBB and others.

Jcink is only the go-to for the American-first, predominantly white, predominantly female, predominantly in their 20s demographic. Change any one of these parameters and the target venue will change, possibly quite considerably.

I would even go as far as to suggest the only reason people go to Jcink is to not appear to be from the 'wrong crowd' because honestly there's no features in Jcink that aren't implemented in ProBoards and Forumotion at this point - just differently. And time is not on John's side; the software at the core of Jcink is 20 this year, and it's only going to get harder to keep that alive. (I understand *exactly* how much work it is, because I've worked on SMF which is a contemporary of IPB 1.3. Back then it was PHP 4 and a very different world to the current PHP 8 lands.)

I should point out that there have been multiple attempts to build off-the-shelf packages for RP forums over the last few years, whether that's Gaia Athens/Vesta Athens, Rolescape, Solus Orbis or my own attempts (currently off undergoing major reworking)

 

[Cory]

Jcink is only the go-to for the American-first, predominantly white, predominantly female, predominantly in their 20s demographic.

How did you come up with these statistics?

 

[Arantor]

Alrighty.

So, let's kick off with the American first part. There is a wide range of RP out there, and not all of it in English. Just in the fandoms I actually know anything about, I know sites in English (obvs) but also in French, Brazilian Portuguese, Spanish, Polish, Hungarian and Czech. Jcink's support for non-English languages... it doesn't exist so before you begin you not only need to skin the site, you also need to translate all the parts of the site you can. Or you could go to, say, Forumotion which has this built in, especially under its Forumactif brand (which is essentially the same thing in another language)

And that's before we get into the culture wars. I'm still amazed at how the purity wars are such a thing, especially with being told to my face that 'white is a single ethnicity' by one of the admins of CTTW... like, come to Europe, I will soon show you that white isn't a single ethnicity - and no-one in Europe would take you seriously with that claim, not even close. That angle, plus the sheer amount of super-vocal posturing that goes on... the term BIPOC doesn't really exist outside the US because the I part isn't exactly being targeted or marginalised, because that's just not an angle of factionalism that we have in Europe, nor is it present in the same way in large parts of South America. I could go on but I'm sure you get my point here.

As to the white - see the culture wars. See all the stories of white people virtue signalling their inclusivity and steamrollering over the concerns of actually marginalised groups who, you'd think, would know their own concerns and struggles.

Predominantly female? Of course it is. Me, I simply don't admit to my gender any more because as a cis-het white guy I'm straight up not welcome. See the debate on jcinkanon (January thread, page 3 I think?) where it's discussed how unwelcome guys in general are.

The 20s demographic, that's easy enough to infer mostly from the factionalism going on with the age debates, e.g. pointing out that using xD is cringe (sorry it's not xD these days it's 😭, or perhaps actually 💀 and I just dated myself by using the term cringe), but also the subtle shift in discussions towards a 25+ minimum age in RP because it's not already gate-kept enough.

But the single biggest thing I know is how small Jcink really is in terms of the RP scene. The animanga folks don't go there (they're not welcome), the predominantly male folks with wolf ambitions don't go there (they're not welcome), the folks who are quasi-refugees from TTRPGs don't go there (they're not welcome, also predominantly guys), the folks who are more technical and want to experiment with doing more customisation than you might think at first glance don't go there (they're self hosting for the most part, also predominantly guys), and that's before you talk about languages and features.

That's the thing, I've helped out individual self hosting RP forums that used to get more posts in a single day than many RP sites get in years. I used to help out warriorcatsrpg.com before it rebranded to Feral Front, back when it was still only a baby site at 25 million posts, I helped the server admin tune it, at its peak it was getting more than a post a second on average, at 90k posts per day (vs 86400 seconds in a day). I've lost count of the just-SMF self hosted RP forums I've helped over the years, and they're not only invisible to the Jcink RPC, they actively stay away because they know full well they're not welcome to share the space, so they don't even try.

I also think it's funny; my wife started a HP RP back in the day (like, 2000 on a hosted service, went self hosted in 2003) and gave up admin to someone else in 2014. That site is still running, it even moved to Jcink for a brief spell (less than 6 months) but they actually moved back again because they didn't have the features they liked from their self hosting. And they're still trucking along, over 1000 posts since they moved back in October 2022. They're not ever going to be as busy as they once were, and the 127,000 posts they currently have is a fraction of what they've had in their lifetime, but that's the kind of thing I mean. I also wouldn't be surprised if they got fed up of the moralising that the Jcink ecosystem seems to do - because other wider-community spaces *don't*.

Fun fact: when I first started working on StoryBB, there were several other people in the project. I was told, repeatedly, that the use-case for what is essentially the Jcink RP use-case was 'so small it doesn't exist'. That I should be building much more like RP Nation where the one forum hosts many games across many different things, rather than the one-site-one-RP model. But these were people who wouldn't have been welcome in the Jcink arena even if they had wanted to become part of it - which they never would have.

And it cracked me up that the founder and lead developer of IPS had never heard of Jcink and was genuinely surprised it was a viable business model the way Jcink is set up. But given that as far as I can tell there's only maybe 2-3 physical servers based on the IP addresses and the visible A records, it probably doesn't cost that much to run.

I will also note for the record how bitterly StoryBB was received. I realised it wouldn't have mattered if I'd built out a hosting service for it, the bulk of the Jcink RPC doesn't care, doesn't want it, actively shuns alternatives, sneers down its nose at self-hosting etc. but fortunately I realised that the Jcink RPC was not the whole RPC, hence the resurgence of energy in the new year.

 

[Moonface]

Jcink would have attracted a lot of the InvisionFree crowd when that service ended because IF was huge for RPG boards and almost every active board on that software that never moved to ZB was that genre. They wouldn't move because ZB lacked doHTML in posts and a lot of boards were using that for post styling. Nothing we tried could really get those boards to move because even with anything else, that was a deal breaker to not offer it on ZB.

I dunno if Jcink has doHTML in posts or not but if it does, that and the fact it is practically a close variant to IF will make it look appealing to a forum market that was using IF long ago before most other services were even a thing probably. If codes and skins translated over to Jcink easily from IF style boards too then why would anyone spend time converting it for other softwares when just moving to a very similar software is simpler?

 

[Arantor]

Jcink has doHTML, but it's really not as important as it used to be - while it's popular with the post template crowd, that has fallen foul of 'but I post from mobile' where it's a real PITA to actually use doHTML, not to mention the fact it's (still) realistically a security issue... (just because few people have exploited it doesn't mean it's not exploitable)

I actually think in the last few years the whole post template thing has faded quite a bit in general, not just because of difficulty of both posting and using on mobile, but because there's been a real push away from that whole style of posting. Except, I suppose, in comms threads where that's basically the entire post format hahaha.

As for 'translated easily'... I know John did a fair amount of work making it possible to change styles and whatnot more easily and insert variables into things, but I don't think that's done the way IF of old did it (I honestly don't remember).

But again, even that crowd is still not even close to 'the majority of roleplayers'.

 

[Kale]

Yes, I too have noticed the post template stuff seemed to fade. Some forums will require an OOC account, then say to do a character account. That character account you basically fill in and then it'd need to just get the approval from 1-2 staff members. I've tried joining some RP forums again, but have not committed yet to making a character for their RP.

I feel it's easier to do that than do a whole post template designed for your character app etc.

 

[Arantor]

There are some places that insist on no-OOC and just run IC only (I personally find this a bit weird because it's easier than ever to not do this), and there's also a growing trend of 'no application' style places to join, though in my experience this only really seems to work for places that don't have super-powered characters, e.g. the real life, slice of life type places, or the sandboxes where literally anything goes.

The app process is there for two main reasons: one, it grounds the character so that there aren't abnormal levels of weird (e.g. vastly overpowered, vastly underpowered, or more rare abilities than a character could feasibly have etc.), and two it gives other people a sense of your writing style and whether they'd be a meaningful connection - someone who struggles to put two paragraphs together as an intro is not going to have a good time writing with someone who habitually throws 500+ words down in a post, and of course, vice versa.

I remember back on a HP RP site receiving a 5000 word application for a first year (so, 11 year old character) who was Dumbledore's favourite-est special-ist chosen one (this in a pre-novel era), with enough weird amounts of trauma for the character to conceivably need more than 11 years for it to have all happened in... the app was a good way to screen out that this particular level of writing wasn't what the rest of the community aligned with.

Even if there is an app, there are two main ways of going about it - some folks do this with adding a bunch of profile fields to fill in, others do it in the context of 'here is a topic, here is a template to fill in' etc. or something similar. It is also a good test to see if people are paying attention and reading the new player guide...

 

[Kale]

I remember back on a HP RP site receiving a 5000 word application for a first year (so, 11 year old character) who was Dumbledore's favourite-est special-ist chosen one (this in a pre-novel era), with enough weird amounts of trauma for the character to conceivably need more than 11 years for it to have all happened in... the app was a good way to screen out that this particular level of writing wasn't what the rest of the community aligned with.

Welp, that would have quite interesting to have to read. I have seen some people get pended for minor mistakes and errors, same with myself. I am not as versed in the HP lore and such as others are despite watching/reading the first four books and movies.

There are some places that insist on no-OOC and just run IC only (I personally find this a bit weird because it's easier than ever to not do this), and there's also a growing trend of 'no application' style places to join, though in my experience this only really seems to work for places that don't have super-powered characters, e.g. the real life, slice of life type places, or the sandboxes where literally anything goes.

I have seen real life RPs be exactly this. It's nice to me, and I feel like I'd probably do better there. I've not yet made any sort of commitment to any RP forums recently.

 

[Arantor]

Welp, that would have quite interesting to have to read.

It was actually mostly tedious. 5000 words is about 10% of the length of the first book - for a 'short bio of an 11 year old child who hasn't even gone to Hogwarts yet' it was far, far too long. Indulgent to a fault about all the various incidents that happened. I think the admin chat at the time dubbed it 'trauma p*rn' because it's just such bad storytelling for so much to have happened to this 11 year old. It was also the kind of prose where 25 words were used to showcase the author's 'rather extensive vocabulary' when 4-5 words would convey exactly the same point.

(For comparison, the character sheet for Dumbledore at that point was 1200 words. The longest character sheet we had at that point was 2900 words, for a major original character with much relevant family history because it played into the site arc we had going on. And that character was well into their middle age.)

I have seen real life RPs be exactly this. It's nice to me, and I feel like I'd probably do better there. I've not yet made any sort of commitment to any RP forums recently.

That's the good thing about RP, it's a form that is so malleable and versatile that it can be almost anything to everyone. I'm sure you'll find a place to call your RP home when you're ready to dive in.

 

[SpookyZalost]

I'd like to get into RP one day... hell I even played some D&D at one point but the one time I tried (it was a tron RP), I was rebuffed pretty hard.

 

[Kale]

I am on a RP forum at the moment and it's surprising how much slower and such it is compared to like over the pandemic period/era. It's nice IMO as I noticed more people seem more interested to RP with my character/characters now despite it taking about the average 1-2 day for a reply.

Maybe I am not on those forums where every single day there's a reply to a thread, open threads, etc, but it's for sure slower IMO. I think I am at the point where I'd almost exclusively stick to fandom or even IRL RPs myself these days. I don't want a headache app process or system. I wanna be able to join and hop in within a day or two depending on staff.

 

[ZandraJoi]

I see these are popping up more & more. I think people like the idea of having more than one account & creating their own stories. I personally am not into roleplaying. I like to write & create stories but they are for my own benefit.
For the forums that have roleplaying, how do you keep activity?

 

[Clarice]

Roleplaying was what I was part of originally at the same time as fan forums believe it or not. It was not easy to be part of because a lot of them dove too much into their character and acted that way even when not in a roleplay. It really became annoying IMHO.

 

[Arantor]

Oh god, the people who can't separate in-character and out-of-character can be hard work. Can even get borderline creepy at times if characters would otherwise be flirting or... more.

As for activity, on the one hand this is often a function of the admin team writing in topics that are of little interest just to keep momentum going, relentless advertising on the various directories, and 'activity checks' whereby people who have popular pictures for avatars have to keep posting to keep them.

 

[Heatman]

I see these are popping up more & more. I think people like the idea of having more than one account & creating their own stories. I personally am not into roleplaying. I like to write & create stories but they are for my own benefit.
For the forums that have roleplaying, how do you keep activity?

They are not really my thing too but what can I do when a work pushed me into taking part in one role playing forum? I had to take part it and I can't say it was that bad. It was all about these magic stuffs, vampires and Werewolves.

 

[ZandraJoi]

They are not really my thing too but what can I do when a work pushed me into taking part in one role playing forum? I had to take part it and I can't say it was that bad. It was all about these magic stuffs, vampires and Werewolves.

If it's a "job", you just do the best you can with it. I've had to wing it with some forums especially if they are gaming or roleplaying as it's a bit over my head. I also do a lot of researching!

 

[ladyquack]

I also think it's funny; my wife started a HP RP back in the day (like, 2000 on a hosted service, went self hosted in 2003) and gave up admin to someone else in 2014. That site is still running, it even moved to Jcink for a brief spell (less than 6 months) but they actually moved back again because they didn't have the features they liked from their self hosting. And they're still trucking along, over 1000 posts since they moved back in October 2022. They're not ever going to be as busy as they once were, and the 127,000 posts they currently have is a fraction of what they've had in their lifetime, but that's the kind of thing I mean. I also wouldn't be surprised if they got fed up of the moralising that the Jcink ecosystem seems to do - because other wider-community spaces *don't*.

^ This is my current site. We initially planned our move to Jcink to free ourselves up from the costs of self hosting and paying for various modifications, etc., and to partially give ourselves better options for advertising, since, as you know, several places only allow Jcink forums. Jcink had most of the features we needed, with the exception of one, which we'd resorted to using Google Sheets to organize everything. We planned to give ourselves an initial year on Jcink and then were going to consult the members about their experiences (they were also heavily involved in the decision to move to Jcink in the first place). Ultimately, we all decided that it was worth it to go back to SMF. Our move to Jcink actually caused us to lose a lot of member activity, but moving back to SMF has greatly improved that and members that had been inactive for several years have even come back.

But, you're right: we're not going to be as busy as we once were. Luckily, that's not our goal. Being on Jcink also made us very aware of the types of personalities frequenting those sites and those were personalities we didn't really want on our site. We periodically get new members, but our focus is largely just relaxing, having fun, and writing amongst ourselves.

(Also, yes, the moralizing was also an issue for me and it drove me crazy.)