Joe Biden's administration to cancel $39 Billion in student loan

[Heatman]

I have never been a fan of Joe Biden's administration since he replaced Donald Trump as the President of the United States of America. His Gender Affirmation Policy is the worst I've seen. But I'm pleased to see him forgive $39 Billion in student loan for 804,000 borrowers automatically.

What do you think about this?

 

[Ken]

This is very long overdue, and it shows. I applaud the president in doing that.

 

[Jason]

Who is going to pay, though? There will be plenty of blue collar guys with memes on social media complaining about bailing out college degrees.

 

[John]

Who is going to pay, though? There will be plenty of blue collar guys with memes on social media complaining about bailing out college degrees.

Who's paying to fund Ukraine? Our insane nation defense budget? The current US debt is 32 trillion dollars. The "who's paying?" excuse is justified for every single penny that the government spends.

In reality - I think the US college education system needs a great overhaul. Go 100k in debt for an arts degree? That's on you. Go 100k in debt to be a teacher, doctor, nurse, or public servant? That's something we need to be reevaluating. What people in the US seemingly don't understand is a college degree is an investment - into themselves. If you don't invest well, you'll lose your money and be paying for an awfully long time. That's fine, if we're not consistently pressuring everyone to go to college. College isn't an end all be all, and it really proves absolutely nothing unless it's a requirement for the job that you want, and that will provide you with a good enough living to pay it back through a salary or some sort of forgiveness.

 

[Arantor]

I’m not against the idea of loans for tuition. I am, however, deeply against the insane compounded interest rates that apply in the US. This is honestly more of the problem than the loans themselves. They’re government loans, they don’t need to be at above bank-rate interest rates (especially as they’re pursued more heavily than other unsecured debt).

Its also not just an investment in the individual, it’s an investment into the future of the country.

 

[Tracy]

From a perspective for my son who had student loans (and corresponding "assistance loans" we payed off)... why should those NOW get a benefit... if they are going to that extent... then why not refund those hard working Americans who worked their asses off to meet their debts and pay the loans off?
The fact was... we did without (as did he) until he could meet his obligations... when it comes down to the core.. .if you are reasonably sure you can't meet your financial obligations to get to "where I want to be"... then maybe a trade school should be in your scope?

 

[Arantor]

Because the structure of obligations has changed since your son’s day? These days it would literally be cheaper for you and your wife to remortgage your house and pay the student debt for your kids than it would be to take out a student loan. Was that the case previously?

 

[Tracy]

Because the structure of obligations has changed since your son’s day?

Don't really buy that bullshit... all-told... his education expenses came in at around $300K between him and us, and that is what I'm aware of... that was strictly tuition costs. It didn't help that he decided to change his "course" slightly more than mid-stream from medical to accounting. Did not include his housing, his books, the transportation costs between the house and his school daily (about 110 miles round trip).

 

[Arantor]

Interest rates for student loans start at 5.5% and can be as high as 8.05%. My mortgage is less than that (for a loan of £385,000)

So, how much interest did your family have to deal with on those student loans? Because that’s the question you’re avoiding dealing with here. My point to you is that the circumstances 10+ years ago are not the same as now and trying to uphold the status quo as if it really is the status quo isn’t actually helping anyone. It’s why the feeling that “boomers pulled the ladder up behind them” is so prevalent because the world isn’t the same as it was then, it’s more cynical and greedy now.

(Also note, a number of the critics of debt forgiveness are quite happy when they receive debt forgiveness themselves. It just seems like “it’s fine if I get an advantage, it’s only the other people who should have to pay their share)

 

[Tracy]

So, how much interest did your family have to deal with on those student loans?

6.8% for our share... I think our sons was something around 5%.
And guess what.. we aren't talking 10 years ago.... more like 5-6, which is EXACTLY in the area that many of the current "gimme because I deserve it" crowd sits.
I realize you apparently have a hard-on for boomers... but guess what... we have actually kept this economy running lately.. it's not any thanks to the "younger generations".

My point is.. why kiss the ass of those now, and say f*ck off to those MULTITUDE of others that were actually able to meet their requirements for repayment of their loans at (frequently) great cost to their daily lifestyle. During the time we were repaying (as well as our son) those loans.. we didn't eat out, we didn't go on trips... Sorry... the youth of today can simply do without much of that which they think they "deserve" until they meet their commitments. One simply HAS to look to the future.. if you can't meet your commitments to get that "designing purses" degree.. then maybe (once more) you should look harder at a trade school.
I guess you also support paying folks for the fact that their great-great-great grandpappy/mother were slaves?

 

[Arantor]

Which is quite a bit cheaper than the rates are now for the same situation, when you factor in how they compound the interest aggressively.

 

[Tracy]

Which is quite a bit cheaper than the rates are now for the same situation, when you factor in how they compound the interest aggressively.

Once more... can't afford it... don't buy it... how frigging hard is that to understand?
Not everybody can afford college... there are plenty of trade schools that can teach one a viable job to live from. Last I looked.. there was nowhere that guaranteed one a college education here in the U.S. I didn't get one because our family finances would not support it.... should I be "due one" now?

 

[Arantor]

I’m not disagreeing in the concept that, in principle, things have to be paid for. I am however disagreeing on the notion that the system isn’t already fundamentally broken.

So many jobs want degree-level people now. More than half the jobs I see in my field I literally don’t, on paper, qualify for because I don’t have a degree - even the beginner level roles. Now, I’ve made it to the point where a degree isn’t necessary, I can demonstrate equivalent experience.

But for people just entering the workforce, you’re essentially advocating that people create a two tier system, the haves and the have nots, because it’s borderline impossible (though not actually impossible) to move from one to the other. If you don’t have a degree, it is *challenging* to earn enough to support the next generation to move past that barrier.

What were essentially arguing about, when you get down to it, is the difference in mindset between “I had to suck it up so should you” vs “I had to suck it up, so you don’t have to”. I’m firmly in the latter camp, but then again I come from a country that has some roots in socialism rather than capitalism. I’m happy to pay more in taxes to have a better educated country. (Tuition fees are not nearly so high here as they are in the US.)

 

[Tracy]

I’m not disagreeing in the concept that, in principle, things have to be paid for. I am however disagreeing on the notion that the system isn’t already fundamentally broken.

Oh, you won't get any argument there from me... but because it's "broken" is it fair to those that slaved and barely got by to meet their commitments to then later say "here ya' go kiddos you are fvcking idiots that got in over your head, sorry you didn't actually think ahead and spent more than you could afford, we gonna give you a break"?
Revise for future... those that made commitments for repayment should simply be required to meet what they agreed to. It's known as personal responsibility... something that certain segments of society have an issue with.

So many jobs want degree-level people now.

Then guess what... you simply don't frigging qualify. Just because you "want that job" doesn't mean you are "due that job".
Once more.. plenty of trades schools out there to go to and get a decent job.

But for people just entering the workforce, you’re essentially advocating that people create a two tier system, the haves and the have nots, because it’s borderline impossible (though not actually impossible) to move from one to the other.

Been that way since society started...
What you advocate for is "give everybody what they want, don't worry about who the fvck has to pay for it".
The very simple fact of life is... we don't all get the best of life their is... we get what we have and then have to deal with it the best we can.
BUT... that once more is an issue with folks that live in a "land of fantasy" where everything is buttercups and roses and unending "give me's", and then those that actually live in reality.
I've seen WAY to many kids going to college that got BS degrees (if they actually graduated) and they were more concerned with the "party" atmosphere at school instead of the educational benefits... you see, they seem to think that going to college is a "right of passage to adult-hood" instead of what it actually is.
Have a friend who recently (after almost a million dollars in college costs and about 7 year in college) told their daughter to "buckle up buttercup" because the parental teat was cut off and now it was on them... she literally had a mental breakdown when she was told that.

“I had to suck it up so should you” vs “I had to suck it up, so you don’t have to”.

No, the mindset is... if you commit.. you do what it takes to pay what you OWE. If you can't afford it... then there are plenty of other recourses available... Once more.. back to that core function of personal responsibility.... something that many seem to want to avoid.
There seems to be this inane belief that ALL are due a discounted/free college tuition... if you are too stupid to figure out you can't afford something.. you simply (as in life) have to deal with the personal responsibility of the commitment you made.
I can use the same argument you do for credit card use... you see, all those poor folks that are putting groceries on their credit cards because they have the "right to live eating rib-eye steaks and shrimp"... instead of adjusting their budget to what they can afford. The government should be subsidizing those credit card charges because well ALL have a right to eat, and to eat well.
And no, I'm not saying that all do this.. there is a noticeable segment of society that live within their means.. then you have that segment that wants to live outside of it.. and many want others to pay for that choice.

As I mentioned earlier.. my family finances would not allow me to go to college... and I sat down and looked at the numbers, how long it would take to pay it back and how it would impact me and decided to enter into a career that I qualified for, which was as an LEO (which honestly.. WAY to many of the youth of today would prefer to avoid because they can't deal with what you have to see, nor the pay, thinking they are due "more than that" because... they are them). And that is another issue with many of the youth of today.. they think they should "all" have cushy jobs... I guess they expect others (you know, that second-class citizenry you commented on) to do that menial labor.