Have you ever reached the point?

[Tracy]

That you tend (especially on a support forum site for your script) to finally reach the point of "screw it, the developers can earn their pay"?
I honestly have to say.. after over a decade of helping out.. I'm tired. I don't ask for much (nor get much) from the script developers recently. So why should I enhance their bottom line (when they basically have brought us nothing major for over a year) and it gains me nothing?
Would that "time" not be better spent upon enhancing my site(s) itself?
Have you ever reached the point that helping others running the script you do takes a back door to producing content on your site (and this applies to both official support site or a 3rd party admin site)?

 

[Reverie]

That does sound frustrating. I think there would be a point I would be tired of supporting them when I’m not gaining anything from it.

 

[Tracy]

I've personally pretty much decided on quitting providing any help on the XF site... and if I need assistance..I'll pursue it via the support tickets system (and have been doing so) and actually get some gain for what I'm paying for. Of course.. this isn't limited to the XenForo script.. I had similar issues with IPS when I ran it.
I'll probably continue to participate in the off-topic area... but XF has lost a decade of experience in helping with their script in my providing free support.

 

[Cedric]

XF isn’t so appreciative lately. Not to members, nor to 3rd party devs. I honestly don’t know what’s up there.

 

[Tracy]

Yah... I think they are feeling the pressure due to it taking them so long to get 2.3 out the door. I mean, really... 2 years? I could see the cloud slowing them down, but parallel work should have been being done. It should not taken all of them to get the cloud up and running, and that was "completed" a while ago.
I'm perfectly happy (other than the bugs that are still present) with 2.2.x line, and will continue to rely on outside developers to provide any real "meat" to the script.
I doubt there will be any compelling reason to upgrade to 2.3 until my add-ons require it.
I was reading through the support site recently and came across about 4 posts that I could have provided the answer to... but simply decided I didn't want to get involved in an ongoing question/answer routine that frequently happens when you assist.

 

[joelr]

This is definitely a challenge when users attempt to provide goodwill support when the company doesn't appreciate or support. I think you should simply ask yourself what you're comfortable giving freely.

I'm reminded of the quote: "Trust takes years to build, seconds to break, and forever to rebuild."

 

[Ravenfreak]

XF really seems to be going downhill as of late. I'm glad I made the switch to Woltlab. I really don't get why they're treating their clients and 3rd party devs they way they are currently.

 

[JoshB]

XF had always been quite on the ball in the early days. Lately I'm not so sure what's been going on over there.

 

[Nebulous]

I've used several different softwares over the years and never really hung out on the official support forums for any length of time. I use them as a tool to get the knowledge or resources I need to maintain or enhance my community.

 

[Tracy]

I use them as a tool to get the knowledge or resources I need to maintain or enhance my community.

But where does that "knowledge" come from generally?
Once other admins quit participating (providing the knowledge) it then all falls upon the developers... which rarely have/take the time to provide detailed assistance in their forums.

 

[guyyanthony]

That does sound frustrating. I think there would be a point I would be tired of supporting them when I’m not gaining anything from it.

I'm going to full agree with you there!!!! took the words right out of mouth haha

 

[Tracy]

It's the same with many sites. Once a core few users start to burn out and cut back on participation, it becomes a downward spiral frequently.
A classic case is another Admin site.... I know several folks that have left from over there, and the activity has dropped drastically.
It's why, as an admin.. you really shouldn't alienate your users.

 

[~ True Legend ~]

XF really seems to be going downhill as of late. I'm glad I made the switch to Woltlab. I really don't get why they're treating their clients and 3rd party devs they way they are currently.

Ah, you used to be with XF? Always wondered why you went with Woltlab which is more expensive. I hope their customer service is better too?

 

[Nebulous]

XF really seems to be going downhill as of late. I'm glad I made the switch to Woltlab. I really don't get why they're treating their clients and 3rd party devs they way they are currently.

How is it going downhill? The software itself is solid. If you don't need much support or technical assistance and if you don't really hang out at the official support forum (like me), there isn't really anything to complain about.

But where does that "knowledge" come from generally?
Once other admins quit participating (providing the knowledge) it then all falls upon the developers... which rarely have/take the time to provide detailed assistance in their forums.

It comes mostly from volunteers / peer-to-peer support, perhaps they've mastered the forum software but their community isn't super busy so they have more free time to help others on the support forums? Either that or they make the time because they like helping others and want to share their wisdom with people in need? I'd say its a noble thing to do, so do it for the forum community as a whole, not for the bigwigs.

 

[Tracy]

It comes mostly from volunteers / peer-to-peer support, perhaps they've mastered the forum software but their community isn't super busy so they have more free time to help others on the support forums

Which doesnt' answer the question put forth about what happens when those very peer->peer support/volunteers reach burnout stages. What can/should (in the case of paid scripts) developers do to encourage more participation by other admins? In almost every paid script support forum I've used over time, there is usually only limited people that are actually responding (providing that volunteer time in). Granted, this is not limited to support site forums as all sites have seen reductions in participation... but I've noticed it more often on support forums, which one would think ALL admins would gain knowledge over time and be able/willing to help... but that doesn't usually hold true. It falls back onto those limited few.
Until IPS started actually doing their support via their forums... I could pretty much count on one hand the admins over on their support site that were around to provide assistance to those asking for it (because you weren't going to get in in the forum from the script developers, other than to be told to submit a ticket), and then the occasional add-on developers willing to help.
Either those "admins" over there were simply site managers and could not answer the (in many cases very simple) questions...... or they simply didn't desire to help others out.

I'd say its a noble thing to do, so do it for the forum community as a whole, not for the bigwigs.

And I'm not arguing that point... what I an referencing is those very folks that have offered (in some cases a decade or more) support. Burnout is a realistic thing, especially as one gets older and realizes that time is a limited quantity left to them. Where 5 years ago they might not have any issues devoting 5-10 hours helping another admin out (either with their server issues or tweaking the site), those admins are getting where they aren't willing to help to that level.

 

[Tracy]

I'm glad I made the switch to Woltlab.

Granted it was years ago... but had similar issues over on the Woltlab site involving peer->peer responses....since I didn't read/write German, it was even worse. The only good thing was their developers (at that time, can't speak about now) were very active on the site to provide assistance.

 

[~ True Legend ~]

XF really seems to be going downhill as of late. I'm glad I made the switch to Woltlab. I really don't get why they're treating their clients and 3rd party devs they way they are currently.

Except for that the XF forum software is much prettier on mobile than Woltlab is IMO. Just my honest two cents .

 

[joelr]

Ah, you used to be with XF? Always wondered why you went with Woltlab which is more expensive. I hope their customer service is better too?

This is a side discussion. But one thing that I want to emphasize, which is super important to all buyers of forum software:

It's not about the cost. It's about the value.

Yes, you can spend cheap. Where Cheap means three years with no significant feature updates. Or you can spend more. And More means monthly feature releases and a feature packed multisuite platform that is constantly developing.

One might surprisingly cost you more in the long run, if you're not getting the progress or the updates that are needed to drive your community forward.

 

[Cedric]

This is a side discussion. But one thing that I want to emphasize, which is super important to all buyers of forum software:

It's not about the cost. It's about the value.

Yes, you can spend cheap. Where Cheap means three years with no significant feature updates. Or you can spend more. And More means monthly feature releases and a feature packed multisuite platform that is constantly developing.

One might surprisingly cost you more in the long run, if you're not getting the progress or the updates that are needed to drive your community forward.

This.

Invision might cost more in their base product compared to XenForo. But I’ve easily spent over a few thousands in customizing AJ as you all see it here.

Although, those customizations wouldn’t look the same on Invision. It’s really a difficult point of view.

 

[~ True Legend ~]

Thanks for adding your two cents @joelr and @Cedric !

So @Ravenfreak would you say the sake about Woltlab comparatively to XF?