Forum Appraisal: ForumPromotion.net

[Cam]

I'm obviously not the owner of Forum Promotion, but for the sake of discussion, I'm curious what everyone would value this forum at? It's a webmaster/promotion forum with a custom theme on XenForo. It's got almost 1.5 million posts, and it's certainly one of the more successful forums in the webmaster niche.

What do you guys think? What would you value Forum Promotion at?

 

[JewishPoptart89]

Do people still post on it? From what I've heard its dying...

 

[s3_gunzel]

It's a webmaster/promotion forum [...] on XenForo.

This is too common. What used to set FP apart was the fact that they were on phpBB - at the time, one of the few Admin/Webmaster forums that were.

What would you value Forum Promotion at?

$200. They lost most of their valuation when they went XenForo; and like I said, now there's nothing separating it from everywhere else.

 

[Cam]

Do people still post on it? From what I've heard its dying...

It's certainly seen better days, and it looks like the last year or so has especially been bleak. You could make the argument that it's been declining for the last 5-6 years though. 2010-11 would probably be when it peaked.

Regardless, overall forum activity isn't the only factor to consider as far as value goes.

This is too common. What used to set FP apart was the fact that they were on phpBB - at the time, one of the few Admin/Webmaster forums that were.



$200. They lost most of their valuation when they went XenForo; and like I said, now there's nothing separating it from everywhere else.

Perhaps it's only worth $200 to you, but as far as appraising goes, the idea is to predict what in would sell for on the market. Also, it's worth considering that the forum is generating more than $200 in revenue on a monthly basis, even with it being in a clear decline.

Do you think things would be different if FP had made the move to XenForo much sooner? By the time they finally got on XenForo, there were hundreds and hundreds of webmaster forums already on XenForo. Perhaps FP would have developed differently if they had jumped onto the XenForo scene when the software was first released.

 

[s3_gunzel]

Well, since you put it that way:

You're expecting me to appraise a forum that is in clear decline that is exactly like every other webmaster forum out there; what once set it apart no longer does. If you want me to appraise it, I'm going to based on what I would pay for it. You don't have to agree with me, but that's the way it is. I don't particularly care what other people would pay for it. That is of no consequence or relevance to me at all.

Webmaster forums tend to serve two purposes:

* Creating a place for you to get a backlink, and
* Creating a place for people to waste time rather than developing their own sites.

The problem is, the latter is a bad thing; people promote these half-arsed sites that they don't ever do work on because they become invested into the other forum because "it's more active". I've seen this too often. I may not be a member of FP anymore, but I will still visit from time to time, and go through the classifieds to see what's going on.

Do you think things would be different if FP had made the move to XenForo much sooner?

I think I would have appraised it more if it had something that set it aside from all the other sites; because - and I'll bet my bottom dollar - if they had something that set them apart, they wouldn't be in clear decline and would, therefore, be generating a LOT more revenue. I don't, and won't, pay more than I have to for a site that is in decline and running the same software, and discussing the same things as a site that I could create tomorrow. It simply isn't worth it, to me.

A name isn't everything. Your former staff status on that forum makes you invested in it; you want to see it do well. Admirable for sure, but sometimes, that just isn't enough. - In this case, I speak from experience.

 

[Cam]

Well, since you put it that way:

You're expecting me to appraise a forum that is in clear decline that is exactly like every other webmaster forum out there; what once set it apart no longer does. If you want me to appraise it, I'm going to based on what I would pay for it. You don't have to agree with me, but that's the way it is. I don't particularly care what other people would pay for it. That is of no consequence or relevance to me at all.

Webmaster forums tend to serve two purposes:

* Creating a place for you to get a backlink, and
* Creating a place for people to waste time rather than developing their own sites.

The problem is, the latter is a bad thing; people promote these half-arsed sites that they don't ever do work on because they become invested into the other forum because "it's more active". I've seen this too often. I may not be a member of FP anymore, but I will still visit from time to time, and go through the classifieds to see what's going on.

My enjoyment of the webmaster niche comes from the ability to network with all kinds of talented people. I'm a business major, I'm not an IT major. I'm certainly not talented in regards to programming or anything like that, so these kinds of forums are a great place to come in contact with web developers, designers, etc. I also check the marketplace on FP on a daily basis, because I'm always looking for new projects to get involved in, and Flippa kind of sucks.

A few years ago, there seemed to be pretty cool sites, scripts, styles, etc. being posted in FP's marketplace on a daily basis, and that just isn't the case anymore. I can't even recall the last time I was legitimately interested in something listed in the marketplace. The advertising sub-forum is basically just staff members trying to rent out their signature space, and the miscellaneous sub-forum is mainly just members trying to sell their FP$ for cold hard cash. A few weeks ago, I saw 15,000 FP$ sell for $7.50. I don't know if you recall the value of FP$ back in the day, but it was much more than that. The rule of thumb used to be 4,000 FP$ = $10, since the administration was officially offering com/net/org/info domain registrations on NameCheap for 4,000 FP$. Clearly, things have changed.

I think I would have appraised it more if it had something that set it aside from all the other sites; because - and I'll bet my bottom dollar - if they had something that set them apart, they wouldn't be in clear decline and would, therefore, be generating a LOT more revenue. I don't, and won't, pay more than I have to for a site that is in decline and running the same software, and discussing the same things as a site that I could create tomorrow. It simply isn't worth it, to me.

Of course, the website you create tomorrow probably isn't going to feature a database of about 1.5 million posts, but I get your point.

A name isn't everything. Your former staff status on that forum makes you invested in it; you want to see it do well. Admirable for sure, but sometimes, that just isn't enough. - In this case, I speak from experience.

I am definitely hopeful that they get their shit together, but I say that with me being on the outside looking in. I certainly have no intention of getting involved with FP at this point in time. There's too much of a headache there. The administration needs to make drastic changes to the community, but then there's all these retired administrators and valued contributors who are always wanting to share their two cents. Mind you, it's great that all these people (like myself) love FP and want to see it get back to succeeding, but most of our ideas are minor changes.

An example of a minor change would be the expansion of the promotion directory, or even the removal of the pointless advertising services that FP offered. The administration needs to completely change their direction, but I feel like they're content with the status quo. They've settled on allowing the forum to decay and simply be stagnant, so long as the forum is still generating a little bit of revenue each month. If you've ever looked at FP's BuySellAds listing, it is clear that FP's advertisement revenue has greatly decreased. With the way things have been going, I've been expecting to find FP listed on Flippa or somewhere soon, but I haven't seen it anywhere yet. I just feel like the owner is going to sell out soon, while he can still get a decent chunk of change from it.

 

[s3_gunzel]

My enjoyment of the webmaster niche comes from the ability to network with all kinds of talented people. I'm a business major, I'm not an IT major.

That was a generalisation; I apologise. I get where you're coming from. I'm fortunate enough to be both an IT guy and, more recently, a business guy.

I also check the marketplace on FP on a daily basis, because I'm always looking for new projects to get involved in, and Flippa kind of sucks.

Maybe there's a market for you there!

The advertising sub-forum is basically just staff members trying to rent out their signature space, and the miscellaneous sub-forum is mainly just members trying to sell their FP$ for cold hard cash.

And this is part of the problem. FP is not, and was never designed to be paid to post. FP$ were never designed with that purpose in mind - and I have always held the belief that being paid cash (not FP$, legit cash) for posting is a bad thing to do. Same goes for moderation. You lose your impartiality when you're being paid to post or moderate. You lose sight of why you're doing it. You lose the sense of enjoyment.

Also: there is a stupidly high staff turnover. You can't effectively manage a forum with a new team member every other week.

Of course, the website you create tomorrow probably isn't going to feature a database of about 1.5 million posts, but I get your point.

We'll take that as read. I'm not saying there'll be 1.5 million posts in a week.

I am definitely hopeful that they get their shit together, but I say that with me being on the outside looking in. I certainly have no intention of getting involved with FP at this point in time. There's too much of a headache there. The administration needs to make drastic changes to the community, but then there's all these retired administrators and valued contributors who are always wanting to share their two cents. Mind you, it's great that all these people (like myself) love FP and want to see it get back to succeeding, but most of our ideas are minor changes.

From what I've seen; that's just the tip of the iceberg. FP is like a Not for Profit organisation with a bunch of elderly people reminiscing about "the good old days" - yes, things really need to change.

I just feel like the owner is going to sell out soon, while he can still get a decent chunk of change from it.

And there's the crux of the problem. I've been expecting the sale of FP for some time.

 

[Belthazar]

What FP is worth and what some n00b on Flippa will pay for it are two completely different things. Keep in mind, FP sold to the current owner for $2x,xxx. The forum wasn't worth anywhere near that, but the current owner was still willing to pay it. Also - keep in mind that sites like BAF sold for 20k on Flippa (as I'm sure Cam remembers). FP is lightyears above that in post/member count, so it could easily go upwards of 30k to the right idiot.

What would I pay for FP? No more than 5k in present state. I also don't think MasterA will be selling any time soon. I've seen him turn down offers in the $10,000 range multiple times when I was an admin. FP is actually a pretty easy turnaround, to be fair. It would just require time, effort, and money - which are things that most owners don't seem interested in giving the place.

 

[Cam]

What FP is worth and what some n00b on Flippa will pay for it are two completely different things. Keep in mind, FP sold to the current owner for $2x,xxx. The forum wasn't worth anywhere near that, but the current owner was still willing to pay it. Also - keep in mind that sites like BAF sold for 20k on Flippa (as I'm sure Cam remembers). FP is lightyears above that in post/member count, so it could easily go upwards of 30k to the right idiot.

What would I pay for FP? No more than 5k in present state. I also don't think MasterA will be selling any time soon. I've seen him turn down offers in the $10,000 range multiple times when I was an admin. FP is actually a pretty easy turnaround, to be fair. It would just require time, effort, and money - which are things that most owners don't seem interested in giving the place.

I actually couldn't remember what MasterA purchased FP for back then, I just knew it was a lot.. Given FP's serious decline, I think it's safe to say the value of the community has dropped. Revenue is the most important factor, and from what I've seen on BuySellAds, it looks like the revenue has greatly dropped as well. Given FP's previous track record of advertisement revenue, I'd probably be willing to pay $10-15k, but I couldn't see myself paying more than that.

I have trouble believing someone would be willing to give more than $20k for FP, even on Flippa. A fishing forum with over one million posts actually sold on Flippa for a little bit under $4,000 a few weeks ago. I had been watching the listing and I made a few bids on it, but I didn't want to invest that kind of money in a niche I have little interest in. Still, webmaster forums/blogs seem to have a knack for being overvalued on Flippa, so I guess it just depends. I do feel like Flippa's market has become a little more realistic over the last year or two.

 

[Clarendon]

I'm a bit late to join in on this discussion but I honestly don't believe that FP is worth as much as it used to be. The community is in active decline and there's nothing being done about it, there seems to be a lack of caring for the site overall and that's quite sad really. The only reason I can see at the moment for someone holding ownership is that they are making money from the revenue the sites making- A few months ago an Advertisement tab appeared in the navbar, a new tactic to try and earn money from the site. I don't know the specifics of the site and it's earnings but I wouldn't pay more than 10k for the community and the state it's in at the moment.